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Types of Fluid

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Patrick (Northe

08-17-2002 19:04:14

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I've been enjoying this message board for a couple of weeks, but didn't have much to add. Today, I bought a 1950 8N - like Christmas for an 8 year old. It wasn't running when I bought it, but it didn't take too much to get her going. I want to change all of the fluids before I do any work. I know I have seen information here about what type of hydraulic fluid to use, also what to use in the steering box. Any help/suggestions would be most appreciated.

Thanks.

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Leo (CA)

08-18-2002 15:52:02

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Re: Types of Fluid in reply to Patrick (Northern NJ), 08-17-2002 19:04:14

Every Wal-Mart store I have been in sells GL-1 80 wt oil in 5 Gal. buckets for about 25-30 dollars.
Leo

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Brian-2N

08-18-2002 14:36:46

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Re: Types of Fluid in reply to Patrick (Northern NJ), 08-17-2002 19:04:14

Patrick,
The hydraulic fluid would be M2C134D, from your New Holland dealer if you have one. Some complain that it is much thinner than the old 90 weight mineral oil, and you can have leaks if your seals are old. Mineral oil is hard to find, and 80W90 is NOT the same. Check out the archives on this, and engine oil too while your at it.

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Patrick (Northern NJ)

08-18-2002 19:09:25

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Re: Re: Types of Fluid in reply to Brian-2N, 08-18-2002 14:36:46

Thanks to all for the help. I went ahead and put multigrade 10-30 in the engine, flushed the radiator and replaced the anti-freeze and went to change my milky hydraulic fluid with M2C134D. All three drain plugs are waaaay stuck. I tried a little heat, didn't seem to make any progress. Tomorrow, I am going to get a bigger wrench.

Thanks again.

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Mountainman

08-19-2002 00:47:16

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Re: Re: Re: Types of Fluid in reply to Patrick (Northern NJ), 08-18-2002 19:09:25

I've read comments on this board about folks who have had their engine lose it's prime using multi weight oil. I would use thirty weight and in hot weather if your pressure is a bit low use forty weight.

Start with the plug at the rear when draining the hydraulic oil. Then do the other two. It's a lot less messy that way!
You say the fluid is milky - a sign of water contamination. One place water gets in is the shifter boot - worth replacing.

Mountainman...CA

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Patrick (Northern NJ)

08-19-2002 11:56:09

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Types of Fluid in reply to Mountainman, 08-19-2002 00:47:16

Thanks. When you say "lose their prime", what do you mean? The oil pump loses its prime? It seems that everyone has a different opinion on this....

Also, I am having a bit of trouble getting the drain plugs out. Given the milky fluid, I assume they are rusted to some degree. I know the jack trick with a cheater bar....and will try. The plugs are in great shape, so this should work. What about heat? Should you heat the plug or the surrounding area?

Thanks.

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Mountainman

08-19-2002 21:13:39

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Types of Fluid in reply to Patrick (Northern NJ), 08-19-2002 11:56:09

I just used a socket and a bar and I don't have a whole lot of "pull", but the drain plugs broke loose. The rear one takes a square socket as I recall. I would apply WD-40 or your favorite penetranting oil regularly to the drains for a couple of days. I'm not big on using heat but you might have to try it. Careful heating cast though!
It doesn't happen a lot, but when an oil pump looses it's prime, it's more often than not got multi-grade oil in it.

Make sure to block wheels etc when you apply force with a cheater bar, it's easy to get the whole tractor moving.

Hope this helps.

Mountainman...CA

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Patrick (Northern NJ)

08-20-2002 06:16:32

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Types of Fluid in reply to Mountainman, 08-19-2002 21:13:39

Thanks for all the help. FYI, I spoke with Don Barclay yesterday about the oil issue. He agreed...said that all the detergent action could take years of accumulated sludge and deposit them in oil passages and the oil pump. His recommendation was to use detergent on a rebuilt motor, but use a non-detergent single weight on a tractor where you don't know the history. Sounds good to me...so I am going to change it.

Thanks for the drain plug advice....I'll let you know how I make out - probably this weekend.

Regards

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Mountainman

08-20-2002 11:02:58

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Types of Fluid in reply to Patrick (Northern NJ), 08-20-2002 06:16:32

Don knows more about N tractors than I ever will and probably more about oil too but before I knew any better I used detergent oil on my first oil change. What came out could barely be called oil and I guess I got lucky since nothing seems plugged. I did add a qt of Marvel Mystery Oil to the engine with that first oil change. Now, after several oil changes, the oil that comes out is a more normal consistency. I change the filter each time too.

I was reading some other posts about using heat and one suggested heating the plug, then letting it cool and adding penetrating oil. Tap on it a little - then when it's cold, apply the wrench. Might take a few tries (reheating) before it lets go but worth the effort.

Happy N'ing.

Mountainman...CA

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Patrick (Northern NJ)

08-20-2002 14:06:10

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Types of Fluid in reply to Mountainman, 08-20-2002 11:02:58

Yes, he was very helpful and very patient! I have always used Mystery Oil in airplane engines, with good success, so I decided to try a quart in the N. The good news is that the oil that I changed was pretty clean and I didn't run her too long. I am just going to drain the 10W-30 and the MMO and put 30W non-detergent and hope for the best.

Regards, PBT

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Mountainman

08-20-2002 21:43:39

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Types of Fluid in reply to Patrick (Northern NJ), 08-20-2002 14:06:10

Gosh, you already ran MMO and detergent oil and got little crud out - why not just continue to use detergent? It's better for the engine. Non detergent will just allow deposits to form where it sounds like there aren't any; detergent will help carry away the crud and lodge it in the filter.

Mountainman...CA

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Patrick (Northern NJ)

08-21-2002 04:30:35

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Types of Fluid in reply to Mountainman, 08-20-2002 21:43:39

I am not sure. The tractor is new to me, wasn't running when I bought it, and has only run about 20 minutes with the MMO and new oil. The oil that I drained was dirty, but not excessively so and the screen on the oil drain plug was clean. I was pleasantly surprised. I hear you on the use of detergent oils.....to gamble with it or not?

Although I got her running pretty good, I still need to check the gaps and timing, change the radiator hoses, fan belt and clean the hydraulic pump, change the relief value and put new hyd oil in it before I really try and see how she works.

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Mountainman

08-21-2002 12:13:47

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Types of Fluid in reply to Patrick (Northern NJ), 08-21-2002 04:30:35

Sounds like you are approaching the whole project the way I did mine, but 12 years ago I didn't have benefit of this board and the FO-4 was a bit thinner too!
You might want to check out Evil Steve's post on oil a couple pages ahead (page 2 right now) I pretty much agree with him although I would never use multi grade oil in the N and I like a bit more oil pressure (wouldn't we all?).
I started seriously working the 8N about four years ago and have had few problems - I went through replacing all the old worn out tune up stuff and rebuilt the carb (didn't need much) and the governor (that made a BIG difference). I also cleaned out the hyd pump and replaced the gaskets etc associated with it. The only thing I haven't had off the tractor is the dist - if it ain't broke don't fix it - but I replaced the wires and plugs, cap and rotor and coil and gasket. I have a set of points and a condenser and when the time comes it will be an easy job.

Welcome to the wonderful word of N tractors!
Post again and let us all know how the drain plug dilemna comes out.

Mountainman...CA

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Wayne Mo

08-17-2002 19:57:08

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Re: Types of Fluid in reply to Patrick (Northern NJ), 08-17-2002 19:04:14

Use the heaviest stuff you can get for the steering gear, anything from 90 to 140w. You are supposed to use GL1 90w in the trans/hydraulic. The more common GL3 is what you will find more readily available. The GL1 is supposed to not have additives that are detrimental to the hydraulic pump and valving. It takes about 5 gal.

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Fast Ed Ohio

08-17-2002 21:34:38

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Re: Re: Types of Fluid in reply to Wayne Mo, 08-17-2002 19:57:08

Check the archives at the top of this page, most of your questions will be answered .If not, get back with the people on this Board.

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