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Ammeter/Rough Running Continued...

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Patrick (Sussex

09-16-2002 18:45:48




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As some of you may remember, I have a 50 8N side mount that runs great as long as you pull a little choke. I also have an ammeter that is hyperactive ("0" to full + back and forth rapidly at more than idle). Based on suggestions from this board, I started trying to trace the ammeter problem. It seems that the previous owner eliminated the wiring block when they rewired the tractor. Could this be my problem? I believe there is a resistor in the block...what is getting fried? Would this somehow cause rough running? I did pull the carb yesterday and repack the throttle and choke shaft bushings. The venturi flange didn't seem to seat right so I ordered another one....don't know if that was affecting air/fuel mixture...etc.

Suggestions appreciated.

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Soundguy

09-17-2002 05:40:14




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 Re: Ammeter/Rough Running Continued... in reply to Patrick (Sussex, NJ), 09-16-2002 18:45:48  
If you have an anaolg voltage meter ( usually the 9 dollar volt/ohm jobs at the auto stores work fine ), take a voltage reading on your battery before starting, and then while running. Watch the ammeter, and the voltmeter. When the ammeter jusps way positive ( hight charge ) you should see a coresponding slight rise in voltage.. say from 6.2 to 7 or possibly just a bit higher. If this is not the case, you may have a loose connection somewhere or a bad wire.

For one, clean your battery terminals and cable connections... Can't hurt.

Couple things to look for. Your 6v positive ground regulator ( We are assuming you have the stock 6v pos grnd system in your sidemount 8n, as you havn't specified another charging system ). Ok, you will have a wire from the regulator to the generator field, a wire to the generator armature, and a battery terminal. ( for the 3 terminal regulators.. I've heard there are 4 terminal regulators out there.. but don't have one in front of me, so won't comment on it. )
Anyway. Sounds like you do not have the stock wiring harness, and that some previous owner has just wired it up, etc.

As a test using some jumper wires, come from the battery terminal of your regulator to your ammeter, them from the ammeter to the 'hot' side of the starter solenoid. This will give you a direct charging path from the generator thru the ammeter, to the battery. Ensure that your ignition is setup and wired in such a way that you can shut your system down when you turn the key, etc.. probably is.. but with that custom wiring job, who knows.
Also, ensure that your regulator has a good ground reference. A bad contact to ground may be what is producing that intermitant charge pulsing.
What i did since I'm still removing 50 years of bad paint from my tractor was to run a seperate wire from a known ground.... like where the ground strap of the battery hits the frame, to the regulatorbacking connection point where it bolts on. Bad grounds were causing many problems on my tractor. Turns out the previous owner had removed the ground strap from the battery, and painte dthe frame, then reattatched the strap over the heavilly painted area. When i got my tractor it would barely turn over. After sanding down the connection point to bare metal the starter is turning over pretty good for a 6v starter.

If that takes care of your charging problem, you know it was wiring and/or grounding, and can correct it accordingly. If not, might want tto take the reg and gen down to a rebuild shop and have them check it for you... beats having to hand crank the tractor!

Soundguy

Anyway, at this point, if your gen and reg are working, you should show charge after starting.

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Phil (NJ-AZ-SK)

09-18-2002 05:21:54




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 Re: Re: Ammeter/Rough Running Continued... in reply to Soundguy, 09-17-2002 05:40:14  
>>>>Turns out the previous owner had removed the ground strap from the battery, and painte dthe frame, then reattatched the strap over the heavilly painted area. When i got my tractor it would barely turn over. After sanding down the connection point to bare metal the starter is turning over pretty good for a 6v starter.>>>

YES !
I would Bet that >90% of electrical problems are the result of a "Bad" frame connection. The "BEST "electrical connection is "NEVER" the Bolt or Screw but direct contact..

JMHO

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Patrick (Sussex, NJ)

09-17-2002 10:40:56




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 Re: Re: Ammeter/Rough Running Continued... in reply to Soundguy, 09-17-2002 05:40:14  
Thanks Soundguy for the suggestions - I am a newbie to the 8N world but having a helluvalotafun running down multiple problems at the same time. The tractor wasn't running when I bought it, but its getting better every day..

My tractor has an "original" 6 volt system, but you are right, a prior owner rewired it. I have a proper wiring diagram, so I am going to go through the whole system step by step and see what I find. I do know they by-passed the wiring block. The wiring block on the tractor also looks different than the one in the Ford Parts Manual...it has three terminals....looks like a two terminal block was original to the side mount '50. I was also told that there was a resistor in the block which reduced the voltage to the coil to 4.8 volts. It appears from Dell, emphatically I might add, that this information is incorrect. The late '50 wiring diagram doesn't show the resistor, so I must have been given bad information.

I will run through your suggested diagnostics and see if I can't isolate the problem.

Thanks again.

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Soundguy

09-17-2002 11:53:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Ammeter/Rough Running Continued... in reply to Patrick (Sussex, NJ), 09-17-2002 10:40:56  
A few months ago, I was just an 8N wannabe owner.. now I have one, and read this sub daily,as I am partially restoring my 8n.. lotsa good info here.

As for the coil / resistor issue. The sidemount distributors don't nned the resistor, and as far as i know only use the two post wiring block.

The front mount distributors were the ones needing the resistor, which was incorporated into the 3 terminal wiring block.

If you do in fact have a side mount distributor, perhaps some other parts of the tractor are from an older tractor, etc..like the sheet metal / hood.. and steering wheel cowl.. and that is where the older resistor came from... that or the previous owner didn't know what he was doing. I soppose the engine could be from a newer 8n, and the rest of the tractor an older 8n.. that is a possibility. At any rate, good luck.
As for Dell, he is a great source for info. I learn alot from his posts.

Soundguy

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Patrick (Sussex, NJ)

09-17-2002 13:13:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Ammeter/Rough Running Continued... in reply to Soundguy, 09-17-2002 11:53:40  
I agree...a great place to learn. I don't know about the three terminal wiring block on my tractor, but the rest of the tractor seems pretty original. All of the casting dates and serial number (275, I forget the rest), steering box, etc. are consistent with a '50 side mount. Maybe the instrument panel/steering wheel cowl is a replacement from an older tractor with a resistor...and thus why the former owner by-passed it when rewiring.... At any rate, thanks for the help and I will get this straightened out shortly....

Patrick

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Dell (WA)

09-16-2002 20:51:13




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 Re: Ammeter/Rough Running Continued... in reply to Patrick (Sussex, NJ), 09-16-2002 18:45:48  
Patrick..... ....repeat after me, "There is NO RESISTOR for an OEM 6 volt sidemount 8N.....EVER", understand?

Well, there is no law that sezs YOU CAN'T REPLACE the missing terminal block and do it right. And FYI: p/n A8NN 14448 Terminal Block 8N [Side MT.Dist.] 1950-54 $11.00

The hyper activity of your ammeter, could be bad generator brushes, bad voltage regulator, bad ammeter, or even something as simple as a loose connection that gets viberated. I can't check them for you, you gotta learn to do it yourself or pay pay someone else. Your call..... .....Dell

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