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Flywheel/Starter Do I have a problem?

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Rich, NJ

12-23-2002 07:42:27

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New problem with my 52 8N. It seems that the starter cannot engage properly the first time.
It either grinds or misses the ring gear completely. Gotta sit there waiting for it to stop and try again. It always seems to engage on the second or third try. Last time I had the starter out, I cleaned the drive area of the shaft with Brakleen. Is this the sign of a bad ring gear? Or something else? Rich

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Bernie

12-23-2002 16:33:08

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Re: Flywheel/Starter Do I have a problem? in reply to Rich, NJ, 12-23-2002 07:42:27

I have a simple solution to a different problem that might be of help to someone. When there are a few teeth missing off the ring gear so that the starter has nothing to engage with occasionally, just put the PTO in gear and turn the shaft a little with a wrench. Rocking the tractor in high gear will do the same thing, but sometimes that's not possible.

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Dale-PA

12-23-2002 08:26:22

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Re: Flywheel/Starter Do I have a problem? in reply to Rich, NJ, 12-23-2002 07:42:27

Rich, Put the starter in a vise, get it motoring, and use a piece of pine (soft) wood, hold wood firmly, and run it into the teeth to make sure it withstands the pressure (be careful, eye protection/gloves etc...). if faint of heart, take to a shop, they'll probably test the same way. Chek the ringgear in the housing using a long handled scredriver turning the teeth. If the outer gear turns freely on the flywheel, it needs replaced or tack welded. Replacing requires splitting case and heating the ringgear to get on. To avoid this process, I tack welded the gear in
4 equal spots through the housing, and have had no problems since. That's your call.

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Evil Steve

12-23-2002 07:59:05

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Re: Flywheel/Starter Do I have a problem? in reply to Rich, NJ, 12-23-2002 07:42:27

Could be a couple of things. First, the bendix may not be fully engaging. Or, the bendix or ring gear teeth. Since you've had the starter out, how'd the bendix and the ring gear teeth look?

One thing to note: SOME remanufactured starters have an exterior metal band (the one covering the brushes) that is bolted together on the backside of the starter (i.e., on the engine side). This band bolt prevents the starter from entering the housing straight. It literally ribs against the engine block causing the starter to never fully seat in the mounting hole.

This also causes the bendix teeth to never contact the ring gear straight on. The ones I've seen were remanufactured in Canada.

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Jim Cox (SW Missouri)

12-23-2002 21:03:34

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Re: Re: Flywheel/Starter Do I have a problem? in reply to Evil Steve, 12-23-2002 07:59:05

for some insane reason, the aftermarket starter parts companies quit making the correct band for these Ncredible tractors, and most shops have to use ford Y-block cover bands, cause that's all that is available. Good call to save the old one. Happy holidays. Jim Cox electrical reman rebuilder guy

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Rich , NJ

12-23-2002 08:12:00

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Re: Re: Flywheel/Starter Do I have a problem? in reply to Evil Steve, 12-23-2002 07:59:05

Steve thanks, I found that band imediately when I recieved the starter. I put the otriginal back on to prevent that interference. The bendix looked OK AFAIR. I can't say for the ring gear. I do see a few posts about ring gears and their replacement and it occured to me that this could be a chronic problem with these old machines. I dread "cracking" it to replace it, but If that's what I've gotta do, I suppose I'll do it. But I want to be sure it's necessary first. Rich

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ThompsoN

12-23-2002 08:27:13

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Re: Re: Re: Flywheel/Starter Do I have a problem? in reply to Rich , NJ, 12-23-2002 08:12:00

Rich, that tractor split isn't too bad. I split mine there in about 2 hours (and could probably shave some time off of that now.). Lot's of posts in archives on doing that.

You should be able to get a pretty good look at the ring gear without splitting the tractor though. With the starter out you should be able to see the ring gear and crank the engine around manually to check it out.

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Dale-PA

12-23-2002 09:35:53

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Flywheel/Starter Do I have a problem? in reply to ThompsoN, 12-23-2002 08:27:13

ThompsoN is correct. You will be able to diagnose a bad ringgear by inspection through the starter housing, but... don't be fooled. When turning the crank from the front, fan/belt area, an expanded (bad) ringgear usually has enough hold to turn with the flywheel. Not until you try to stop the motion by wedging something in the teeth of the ringgear can you truly discern if it is problematic. Best done with 2 people, get's tough trying to turn the crank and inpect through a dark hole also.

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ThompsoN - good point

12-23-2002 10:13:04

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Flywheel/Starter Do I have a problem? in reply to Dale-PA, 12-23-2002 09:35:53

I hadn't considered the "slipping issue". Problems I've run into with ring gears have been a whole lotta broken teeth.

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