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Missing head bolt

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Ohiosteve

02-11-2003 05:23:04




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I posted this on the IH board but I would like advise from you folks as well. I have Farmall H
that had a sheared off head stud when I bought it.
It is sheared off flush with the block. Someone had tried to drill it out and of course managed to
wander off into the block slightly. Options? Can
the hole be welded closed and re drilled? Can I
drill/tap the hole a bigger size? This would require a special stud that has larger threads than the shaft. This tractor has been running fine
without the benifit of this one stud. Should I
reassemble and forget it?
BTW it makes me appreciate my 2N as it is much
easier to work on. There are too many oil lines
on those heads with valves! I would appreciate any advise. Steve

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Patrick (NJ)

02-11-2003 13:54:27




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 Re: missing head bolt in reply to Ohiosteve, 02-11-2003 05:23:04  
I don't know how much of the original stud remains in the block, but did you try an EZ Out? I removed a broken coil mount bolt from my 8N block with PB Blaster, a little heat and an EZ Out. Worked like a charm.

Also, on Helicoils and similar inserts, a little Locktite will make it pretty permanent. I've never tried it, but you could probably get real close to permanent with JB Weld.

Good luck!

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Patrick (NJ)

02-11-2003 13:49:37




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 Re: missing head bolt in reply to Ohiosteve, 02-11-2003 05:23:04  
I don't know how much of the original stud remains in the block, but did you try an EZ Out? I removed a broken coil mount bolt from my 8N block with PB Blaster, a little heat and an EZ Out. Worked like a charm.

Also, on Helicoils and similar inserts, a little Locktite will make it pretty permanent. I've never tried it, but you could probably get real close to permanent with JB Weld.

Good luck!

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2NTim

02-11-2003 12:23:05




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 Re: missing head bolt in reply to Ohiosteve, 02-11-2003 05:23:04  
Boy...been there, done that! I broke off 2 studs last fall while tearing my 2N engine down. I mounted the bare block on my milling machine, spot-faced the end of the stud to clean it up, and ***carefully*** drilled it out. I chose a drill bit that was about .01" smaller than the original tap drill for that thread. So...now all you have to do is pick at the end of the remaining threads until you can grab the end with pliers and pull it out.

OH...if you find that you get half the threads out...then the thing breaks off way down in the hole...I've got a solution that worked like a charm...lemme know. This is by far the best way, I think...not a scratch on the original threads!

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Gary B

02-11-2003 11:12:06




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 Re: missing head bolt in reply to Ohiosteve, 02-11-2003 05:23:04  
Here is what I have done successfully many times. Drill (by hand)through the existing bolt with a smallish drill bit as close to center as possible. Enlarge with bigger drill bits until you are worried that you are getting close to the threads. Now get a new flat sided 1/8" carbide bit for your Dremel tool (you have one, right? If not, now's the time!). Start enlarging the hole until you just start seeing the threads. You will see them pretty readily on anything this old due to rust and dirt in the threads. Make sure you can see the threads all the way around the hole and all the way to the bottom. Now, starting at the lead-in at the very top, begin picking out the threads with a sharpened punch or a dental pick. Once you have the thread starting to unwind, grab it with a needle nose pliers and start twisting it out of the groove. The remnant of the bolt's thread will pull out of the threaded hole wall and wrap itself around the pliers nose as you go. The thread sliver will usually break a few times, which means you have to get out the pick and start it out of the groove again. Repeat until all of the bolt threads are out. If it gets difficult near the bottom, a tap will often take care of the rest of it, just be sure you have most of the threads cleared before attempting this otherwise the tap won't have much thread engagement to grab on to. Often the tap will catch the remaining portion and they will come out with the tap when it is screwed out of the hole.

This sounds complicated, but it just takes time. You'll be amazed how well a good carbide bit cuts and you'll be damned proud of yourself when you are done!

Gary

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Blake (TX)

02-11-2003 14:19:39




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 Re: Re: missing head bolt in reply to Gary B, 02-11-2003 11:12:06  
I have seen this method used successfully on aircraft engines. It's slow and tedious, but after all's said and done, can yield the most desirable end result. It's cause for celebration when successfully accomplished, too!

Blake '52 8N512510
Rosharon, TX



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NO WELD . . . Dell (WA)

02-11-2003 08:41:52




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 Re: missing head bolt in reply to Ohiosteve, 02-11-2003 05:23:04  
Steve..... ...NO WELD.....castiron blocks and weld is not compatable. You can not successfully hold a hand drill steady enuff to drill out a broken off studd innna block. Gotta be a machine shop process with milling machine.

I'm not a fan of "heli-coils", because they come loose, but my Boeing machinests liked "Kleen-Serts", a re-threading bushing that was staked inplace with tiny little wedges that don't come loose.

Myself, I'd try to drill and tap for next size larger bolt/stud. They actually make dual-diameter studs for special situations, I'd certainly consider that option..... ...Dell

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Dan (Myersville)

02-11-2003 12:05:36




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 Re: Re: missing head bolt in reply to NO WELD . . . Dell (WA), 02-11-2003 08:41:52  
One of the features of HeliCoil inserts is that they can be removed so yes they can vibrate loose although I've never had a problem (never used one in a head either! - take that back have used them without problem in sparkplug holes). Drilling and tapping to next oversize is often a whole lot cheaper if you can accomodate the oversize. The thread inserts Dell describes look like a better application for this repair than a HeliCoil. But to tell you the truth Dell, I use the word HeliCoil like I use the word Coke. It might be Pepsi, RC Cola, or even 7UP, they're all Cokes!

Dan

P.S> I don't know how many times I've cursed myself for drilling or hacking up some buggered up thread to avoid spending $20 to have a well equipped shop fix it, only to bugger up the base part and wind up spending far more in the long run. A good dog and good machinist are definitely man's best friend(s).

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MikeC

02-11-2003 10:09:34




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 Re: Re: missing head bolt in reply to NO WELD . . . Dell (WA), 02-11-2003 08:41:52  
I found a pretty good explaination of how those inserts work. It looks like they would work really well.



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Ohiosteve

02-11-2003 12:12:17




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 Re: Re: Re: missing head bolt in reply to MikeC, 02-11-2003 10:09:34  
I knew I would get some good advise on this forum.
I know now that welding is not an option. Tomorrow
I will re-evaluate and use one of these suggestions. I do have a Dremel tool so I might try that first and failing that I will probably
go with the Kleen-sert method. Thanks fellas.



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Willy-N

02-11-2003 06:48:35




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 Re: missing head bolt in reply to Ohiosteve, 02-11-2003 05:23:04  
If it were me and it was my working tractor I might just try to see how long it goes befor it starts to leak. Then fix it due to I sure would hate to mess it up to where it is no good after someone started to fix it but made a mistake. It could be machined out for big bucks and a lot of work. Mark H.



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Dan (Myersville)

02-11-2003 05:33:26




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 Re: missing head bolt in reply to Ohiosteve, 02-11-2003 05:23:04  
HeliCoil's are wonderful things.



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