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OT....Not a Gas

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Ron from IL

02-21-2003 07:10:50




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Since I know that there is a great variety of stored knowledge present on this forum, I'll go trolling for some HVAC men...

I've got a Janitrol 75,000 BTU 95% efficient pilotless ignition LP gas central furnace. It's been a REAL PITA since I got it, but its latest shenanigan is really baffling. Here's what it does:

If the unit runs on a daily basis, it does fine. However, if we have a warm day, say, like yesterday when the temp soared to 50 degrees, and the furnace shuts off for most of the day (we were also burning a little supplimental wood), the pilot will not relight. The I.D. (exhaust fan) comes on, I hear the spark ignitor TRY to light the pilot and fail, then the unit shuts off and retries ten minutes or so later. What I have to do to get it to relight is remove the pilot line, take off the pilot orifice, just TOUCH each side of the pilot hole with a needle, blow through it, then re-install. It'll work every time after I do this. I seldome see anything blocking the orifice hole, but I go throught the procedure anyway, and the d@mn thing always works. What I want to know is, what's clogging the orifice? My dad says that spiders really like the smell of propane, and may be building a small web there. Any other ideas?

Sorry for the long post, but, like the pirate that had a steering wheel taped to his privates said, AAAAA ARRRRR HHHH! It's drivin' me NUTS!!!

Ron

As long as the furnace runs on a daily basis, it d

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Lee

02-23-2003 17:02:52




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 Re: OT....Not a Gas in reply to Ron from IL, 02-21-2003 07:10:50  
The 95 % efficiency units are sometimes more trouble than they are worth, However, your problem appears to be related to the ignition control. Direct Spark Ignition utilizes a board which does the following on start up.
1) It checks for a dead short between the sensing electrode & ground. If the sensing electrode is grounded, it will never try to start.
2) once it establishes that no ground exists, it will energize the pilot gas valve & the spark module
3) If the pilot lights, the carbon ( an element in gas ) creates a small potential to ground--basically, the flame is conducting electricity. IF the flame is going, it will short to ground
4) once it "sees" this ground, it calls the main gas on

It sounds like your unit is going into a trial for ignition, then locking out before the main burner ignites. Id recommend doing the following:

Clean the primary ( high tension wire)
suspend it from touching anything by using tywraps( non conductive) do not cinch up the tywraps tight to any grounded metal

take some sandpaper & clean the sensor and both
stakons at the sensor and also back at the ignition control.

Reset the power to the unit and check for spark--make sure the spark you are hearing is at the pilot assembly not a leaky high tension wire

take a meter once the sparking starts & check for 24v between gnd & the pilot gas valve--PGV

IF you have 24V, the problem is either with the gas valve or an interuption in power going to the gas valve

If you don't have 24 volts, the problem is with the ignition control

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BS@ElmaNY

02-21-2003 16:23:42




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 Re: OT....Not a Gas in reply to Ron from IL, 02-21-2003 07:10:50  
Further to the comment below on pipe diameter, the furnace monitors exhaust pressure backpressure (you'll see a piece of small diameter tubing near the exhaust fan). If the furnace thinks there's not proper exhaust (i.e., too much backpressure), it won't try to light.

We have trouble with these units here near Buffalo. Because there's moisture in the exhaust stream, ice can form near the end of the exhaust pipe on the side of the house. This prevents proper exhaust flow, causing backpressure, which prevents the furnace from trying to light.

That's about all I can add to what others have said.

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John,PA

02-21-2003 13:14:35




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 Re: OT....Not a Gas in reply to Ron from IL, 02-21-2003 07:10:50  
I mostly do commercial refrigeration, however, from time to time I am called upon to give my thoughts about residential heating systems, for my ref. customers.

I only recommend a standing-pilot system. There are so many heating contractors in the area that have not'n but problems with the newer hi-tech equipment. We are too remote to be a "test-bed" for the manufacturers.



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Dan (Myersville)

02-21-2003 12:19:37




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 Re: OT....Not a Gas in reply to Ron from IL, 02-21-2003 07:10:50  
Another possibility - line pressure. My Lennox will try but won't light if line pressure is below spec. Might want to check the regulator on your tank while you are at it.

Dan



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Barnstormer

02-21-2003 09:23:00




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 Re: OT....Not a Gas in reply to Ron from IL, 02-21-2003 07:10:50  
I installed a brand new high efficiency gas furnace 2 years ago. It started doing the same thing. This was a replacement to a previous unit.
My furnace man did some calculations and found that my air intake from outside was too small for the new furnace and would not allow the furnace ignite.
We took out the 3" pipe and installed a 4". Problem resolved.



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Chris(MI)

02-21-2003 08:04:07




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 Re: OT....Not a Gas in reply to Ron from IL, 02-21-2003 07:10:50  
Ron,

Just went through the same problem with mine last year. Turns out it was the main control board.(after trying new lines and orifice) You can try replacing the thermocouple, it might buy you a few days. This would have been the 3rd board at $350.00 a pop in 9 years. Got tired of fighting with it and bought a Lennox.

Good luck,

Chris

PS: Also have a Janitrol at my cottage and it also has been a PITA!

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