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That silver s#!+.....

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Ron from IL

02-28-2003 12:18:34




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Hey guys,

Here at the heating plant where I work, we burn coal, #6 fuel oil and natural gas. It's a filthy place, with all kinds of airborne contaminants, both in particulate and gas form. Needless to say, the equipment (not to mention our lungs!) is subjected to high levels of corrosion. We hardly think of putting any piece of equipment together without using that silver hi-temp antiseize (Permatex makes what we use) on the fasteners. It really helps the next person who has to disassemble the equipment.

What I'm getting at is, how many of you use something similar when re-assembling your N's? I try to use it whenever I can. Yeah, it gets on everything--clothes, fingers, etc.--but it really keeps things from sticking. What about it?

Ron

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Scott(Ks.)

03-01-2003 08:39:35




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 Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to Ron from IL, 02-28-2003 12:18:34  
Ron,
I am a boiler plant operator for the State of Kansas. It's kind of low rent as there are 3 300hp and one 400hp Cleaver Brooks boilers. We burn natural gas 99% of the time and occasionally #2 oil.
Staying away from that coal and heavy oil makes it easy to keep our plant clean. Also it is primarily a heat plant so we can shut down in the summer for maintenance. Every summer we completely go through all the boilers, piping, lwco's, safetys and paint everything that does not move. When we are done we have the pleasure of sitting there all winter and watching the furnace run.

EVERY BOLT AND NUT I PUT TOGETHER GETS ANTISIEZE!
Because I am going to have to take it apart next year. We also put a liberal amount of antisieze on the face of lwco gaskets and all piping flange gaskets. It saves a lot of scraping the next time you repair it.

I have carried this habit over to my home wrenching. It goes on my 8N, pickup, home boiler and yes even on my (lug) nuts. I have never been in anything yet that wouldn't clean off my hands.

I would have to be really frustrated to put loc-tite on any fastner and I know sometimes it is necessary.

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Scott-NC

03-01-2003 06:25:57




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 Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to Ron from IL, 02-28-2003 12:18:34  
A properly lubed fastner, torqued to yield will not come loose if the fastner and it's application are properly matched. When a bolt is understressed or the material it threads into is soft or compressable gaskets are used, use the mfg's recommendation where possible. Different grade bolts of the same size accept different torques (and you do use a torque wrench don't you?). In an effort to retain as many origional fastners on my tractor as possible I usually run a tap into most holes and use anti-seize. I don't like using a die on the studs/bolts as invariably they wind up undersize. The exception to this is when using the adjustable I.D. style of die. Most of the 7/16 bolts on my tractor can stand 50ft/lb torque with a dab of anti-seize. Of the automobile mfg's who's opinion on the subject I have read, all say to leave the threads dry and specifically state they are to remain so. Don't believe me? Go look in your owners manual. I have three, all different makes and they all say the same thing. But, if working on a car that has wheel BOLTS (like Mercedes and BMW), I usually anti-seize the threads and leave the tapered shoulder dry. Had too many of the suckers come in from up north with the lugs rusted in place.

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Hobo,NC

02-28-2003 19:10:40




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 Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to Ron from IL, 02-28-2003 12:18:34  
Antiseize on everything? That would be a over kill. I would use it only were corrosin woul be aproblem. Now for all of ya thats like to play try this. Take a 3/8 bolt and run a nut all the way up it. Now beat the he!! out of the treads. Put some antiseize on the treads and now you can take the nut off and reuse the bolt.



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John,PA

02-28-2003 14:09:56




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 Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to Ron from IL, 02-28-2003 12:18:34  
Hi, Ron

When I was a young apprectice, working for a master machinist, while spending 2 remaining years working off my indentured "servent" status, I noticed that the old machinist had, in his tool chest, a small bottle of Milk of Magnesia.
One day I noticed the old fellow open the bottle of Milk of Magnesia and coat the threads of some bolts before assembling them in an AIRCRAFT engine.

Well, I took-up the courage that I had and asked the mechanic "why did you coat the threads with Mike of Magnesia?" It seems that during WWII it was quite common to use Milk of Magnesia as an Anti-Seiz compound. I have been using it ever since. Good stuff to keep in ones tool-chest.

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Dave Smith

02-28-2003 13:38:58




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 Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to Ron from IL, 02-28-2003 12:18:34  
There is three difrent kinds that I have seen. One the (silver) is a powdered nickel base. A (copper) that has a copper base and a black that is graphite based. The silver is the most expensive and has a higher temp and pressure rating, But all seem to work well for our use. Im trying to remember this, its been a long time.
Dave <*)))><



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DC

02-28-2003 13:12:45




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 Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to Ron from IL, 02-28-2003 12:18:34  
I work in an undergropund mine that has alot of H2S, that gas really puts a hurt on metal, we use the same stuff on everything and I am going to use it on my 8n when going back together (but have to admit it came apart very easy)



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GregWis

02-28-2003 13:04:46




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 Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to Ron from IL, 02-28-2003 12:18:34  
I havent used it but will probably start. Would it be ok on a wheel lug nut?? have had a few of those that have been buggers.



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SteveB(wi)

03-01-2003 08:10:07




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 Re: Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to GregWis, 02-28-2003 13:04:46  
The other place I use it besides the lugs is on the hub/drum center and backside of the wheel. I've seen plenty of times the lugs are all off but a sledge is needed to knock the wheel off the hub. Especially trailers which rarely get the wheels removed.



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I was taught . . . Dell (WA)

02-28-2003 13:20:28




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 Re: Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to GregWis, 02-28-2003 13:04:46  
NEVER EVER put anything on wheel lugnuts. Seems the flexing and pounding of wheel will loosen the lugnut and ooopsie, wonder where that wheel that just past my window came from? (grin)

Otherwize, yes, I do use Anti-seeze on a lotta nuts and bolts where constantly exposed to corrosion. I ALSO use it on my sparkplugs, keeps from wearing out the threads in the alumnium cylinderhead of my BMW's. I also use a lotta locktite 242 blue on nuts and bolts I don't want to un-intentionally come apart..... ...Dell

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Truck

02-28-2003 19:30:35




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 Re: Re: Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to I was taught . . . Dell (WA), 02-28-2003 13:20:28  
Here in salt country I have to use never sieze on any lugnut/stud where corrosion has already removed the cad or other plating on it. If aluminum wheels are involved it is a MUST! (Especially if the maker has chosen those stainless wrapped lug nuts that were so popular for a while. )I also use it on my tractor lug nuts for much the same reason.On many of the older tractors a torch is the only way to remove the wheels. Rust is a real bummer around these parts. Every time a take another part off my Arizona jeep, I shake my head and say, That woulda never come off if it was from around here!
So , if you are in heavy salt/rust country... ya might still need never seize on lugs.

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raytasch--Dell, The Times, They are Changin'

02-28-2003 15:26:00




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 Re: Re: Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to I was taught . . . Dell (WA), 02-28-2003 13:20:28  
I have been playing with old cars, trucks, tractors for well over 50 years and have always been an advocate of antiseze compound on about everything I assemble if there is any chance it will have to come apart again.
On the lug nuts, My motorhome with 22.5" Alcoa aluminum wheels have two torque recomendations, 450lb +- 50 dry and 350lb +- 50 lubricated. This information is available at www.alcoawheels.com/heavy/
This is information for class 8 OTR trucks. ray

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Dell (WA)

02-28-2003 16:20:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to raytasch--Dell, The Times, They are Changin', 02-28-2003 15:26:00  
Ray..... ..I spent my last 20 professional years as a Electronics Instrumentation Flight Test Engineer for Boeing, studying the effects of vibration with accelerometers on all kinds of aircraft structures including jet engines. I know what vibration can do, you know like wings falling off...etc...

Boeing specs a high-nickel hi-temp anti-seize for engine bolts, but guess what? they are also safety wired. Safety wire, the last ditch prevention against parts vibrating apart.

FYI, the big nut that holds the jet engine front fanhub onto the engine mainshaft is torqued to 3.2 foot/TONS!!!! Takes a 1/2" air drive drill motor about 12 hrs with a triple-reduction geardrive to rattle it tight. And then it is safety wired.

And you thought the 8N's rear axle NUT 450 ft/lbs was a grunt (grin)..... .....respectfully, Dell who still sez: NO ANTI-SEIZE on MY LUGNUTS, 8N tractor, or Dodge Cummins Diesel, or BMW 2002, or VolksWagon Rabbit Diesel Pickups

your milage may vary

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dave#1

03-01-2003 04:34:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to Dell (WA), 02-28-2003 16:20:15  
Dell my man, I love airplanes, jets, fighters and the like as much as the next guy, I watch the history channle and wings all the time, "But" hate to say, apples and oranges. You say..... ....I spent my last 20 professional years as a Electronics Instrumentation Flight Test Engineer for Boeing, studying the effects of vibration with accelerometers on all kinds of aircraft structures including jet engines. I know what vibration can do, you know like wings falling off To be right to the point..... ...."Who cares?" LOL
Only kidding..... ...I really do think you need to compare apples to apples here, as you heard so far, billions of us have used anti seize on lugs and have never lost any lug nuts.

respectfully dave who has used anti seize on Volve L-70 payloader, AC 740 payloader a GMC 10 car hauler, a F-7000 4 car hauler, 4 -1/2 ton delivery trucks, 8n, 860 ford,Dodge Caravan, Subaru , Dakota, Cherokee,Dynasty, (finger is getting tired) LOL

Grin
later,dave

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Makdo

02-28-2003 18:13:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to Dell (WA), 02-28-2003 16:20:15  
Been a mechanic on heavy equipment for 31 years. Put never-seize on every thing I put togther. I'm pretty sure my boss and wife would have let me know if there wheels had fallen off.



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Bruce (VA)

02-28-2003 13:00:58




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 Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to Ron from IL, 02-28-2003 12:18:34  
I use it all the time on my N's, lawn mowers, etc. I haven't used a nut cracker or had to grind a bolt off in years. If I ever restore my N's, I don't know what I'm going to do with all that silver stuff all over the place!



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Bill 52 8n

02-28-2003 12:38:15




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 Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to Ron from IL, 02-28-2003 12:18:34  
We use never seize compound on lots of stuff. My dad puts it on the bolts for our lawn mower blades (part-time mowing business). Makes changing blades much faster, and it lasts pretty long.

Bill



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duey

02-28-2003 12:20:24




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 Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to Ron from IL, 02-28-2003 12:18:34  
That's certainly one of the good things to use! It does clean off the hands..... .eventually!!!



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but.....

02-28-2003 12:27:44




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 Re: Re: That silver s#!+..... in reply to duey, 02-28-2003 12:20:24  
...I always find some (under wrist or forearm) that I missed AFTER I'm supposedly done cleaning up (I use Lava soap and a Scotchbrite pad!).

Ron



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