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To charge or not to charge...

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Andy

03-19-2003 04:23:26




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I figured I would turn to you guys for advice since you seem to have all the answers. I have a friend who had a house built this past year. He has no equipment of his own nor much experience with outdoor work. He rented a Bobcat last year and I dug his driveway for him. He rented a trencher and I buried his electric lines and downspouts for him. I graded his driveway and bushhogged his land with my 8N also.

Now he's looking to plant grass and he wants me to come out and level his yard with my disc and drag and then spread grass seed for him. My problem is I run a small lawncare business on the side and don't have a lot of time for his stuff. What time I have is valuable to me and he is tighter than the bark on a tree with his money. He lives about 15 miles away and I have to trailer the 8N there. He doesn't realize the time it takes to load a tractor and secure it, or the anount of upkeep there is on a 50 year old tractor that is used frequently.

I guess I'm wondering, should I charge him for the work or not? If so, how much? If not, how do I let him down easy? We are co-workers and good friends so I wouldn't want to strain our relationship, but I also don't want to get taken advantage of just because he won't get his own equipment. Thanks for your help...

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Mike

03-20-2003 06:54:43




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 Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Andy, 03-19-2003 04:23:26  
Andy,

Has your "friend" ever offered you a dime to cover your expenses. Why do I think he hasn't. He sounds not so much like a friend as a aquaintance who will use familarity to guilt someone into working for free. I'd give him your normal price list for what it would cost for any of your customers, then knock off a few bucks for "friendship" and watch him become an ex-friend.

And you'll be better off for it, that way you quit wasting your time on a mooch. That's my opinion, there are as many takers out there as there are givers.

Good luck.

Mike

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Mike

03-20-2003 07:10:09




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 Re: Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Mike, 03-20-2003 06:54:43  
Andy,

When I posted my first response I hadn't read through all the responses, the one most interesting is yours about the fact he could spend 4 grand on a posh garden tractor, that right there tells you he has no intention of ever covering your costs, just wants you to get things ready so he can use his garden tractor. If it a good garden tractor he can obtain implements for it and do the job himself.

I still see him as a user more than a friend, as I said, work up a price as if he was a regular customer, knock a few bucks off (already know what this is going to be and DO NOT exceed that number) for friendship. And I still think you'll see an ex-friend. You don't have to like everything in life, that's just the way it is.

Again, good luck, you've already been a lot better friend than he has.

Mike

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Bill W.

03-19-2003 16:57:00




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 Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Andy, 03-19-2003 04:23:26  
Depends on how good a friend he is and how capable he is of paying. Good N-ing.



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51 8n- AL

03-19-2003 14:50:17




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 Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Andy, 03-19-2003 04:23:26  
what i have done in a case like this is to charge an hourly rate ie. $20.00, for the tractors labor. explaining that every year you need to put XX bucks in the old girl to keep her going. you donate your time free as a friend. keeps everyone happy.



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Dean N VA

03-19-2003 12:04:16




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 Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Andy, 03-19-2003 04:23:26  
Andy, I have a couple friends that have been extremely helpful to me both in the way of advice and in real help, such as working on my 8n. I personally feel that trading favors means more, at least to me ! Vut if I have to pay then so be it. I worry myself when I feel the scales of favors given and taken are against me. That's just me. Sounds like you need to explain just as you did in your post and let what happens happen. In the end it will work itself out to where it should have been anyway. Good luck, and I hope this guy is as much a friend as you think he is.

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dave n50 8n

03-19-2003 10:44:52




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 Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Andy, 03-19-2003 04:23:26  
Maybe do it on your own schedule.

Sounds like a one way street. I think you feel this way too, hence the question.

He may think this is no sweat for you since you do it all the time. Problem is: it'd be for free.

good luck!



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Andy

03-19-2003 09:49:20




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 Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Andy, 03-19-2003 04:23:26  
Wow, I can't belive how many responses I've gotten about this. Thanks to everyone. It really is a difficult situation because we hang out alot at work, go to lunch together, but we don't really get together after work, unless he needs something done. Sure, he's said he'll have our family over but it just never seems to happen.

I'm not looking to rake him over the coals, I'd just like to get a little something for my trouble and to make it worth my while. It's pretty much he assigns a task and I do it because he can't. He's not very mechanically inclined and doesn't know how or why things work.

I've tried to get him to buy a tractor but he says $2000 is too much for an 8N with a blade and bush hog. I'd let him borrow my disc for as long as he needed it if he had his own tractor. He would rather spend $4000 on a new lawn tractor and then buy implements for that. Just a little insight into what I'm dealing with...

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Jim Cox (SW Missouri 9N)

03-19-2003 09:23:51




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 Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Andy, 03-19-2003 04:23:26  
I got into this whole tractor thing cause of the drainage problems with my basement lot and the idiot builder next door, needed a box blade, etc. Anyhow, I had a couple of buddys quote me over a grand a piece to move a big pile of dirt out. One of them had a 77 chev Pickup he put different doors on with Power windows and doorlocks. I had never charged him for working on the truck, but i worked it in when it was convenient for ME. A day comes last april, he needs 20 loads of dirt to back fill a mansion, and he comes and gets mine and hauls it away, when HE needed it. Then i rewired the 77 front to back in MY spare time, and we both forgot to charge each other. He's 15 miles away, which is why i'm posting this reply. BTW, he now hires me to help with excavating when it pays him, and I rebuild his starters for Parts and labor for much less than the local CAT dealer, and when he wants to mow his back five, I do it just to help, and to get some tractor time, of course no charge. it's about friends, and FREE time, that's when we don't charge. BTW, do you guys share a cold one or catch any TV/games together, or is it just when he needs yard work?
Jim Cox
SW Missouri

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Dell (WA)

03-19-2003 08:17:56




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 Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Andy, 03-19-2003 04:23:26  
Andy..... ....15 miles is not a "neighbor". Just flat outright ask him if he is hiring your business? Otherwize, you're busy, sorry. There is not a problem driving next door to earn some "good neighbor points". There is not a problem helpin' a good buddy.

My wife rented a trailer to a professional sheepshearer, I always paid cash money for him to sheer my flock, he then paid the "rent" to the rental agent (wife) but he always found time to shear my flock when the wool was dry. (and in the rainy pacific north-WETT, thats sometimes hard to do)..... ..Dell

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ANDY....jOHN,pa

03-19-2003 08:17:18




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 Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Andy, 03-19-2003 04:23:26  
It has been my esperience that a "BUSINESS" man can be TOO NICE. Part of the price of being a businessman, NO FRIENDS. Can be too expensive for survival (financial). TRUST your family, and the "friends of the FAMILY".

CONFUSING? GOOD? Hope this helps. :)



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Rick H. Ga.

03-19-2003 08:08:00




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 Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Andy, 03-19-2003 04:23:26  
Hi Andy,

I suppose my advice is worth what you are paying for it.:-). Here is what I would do. Since you say you are coworkers and friends, there is already a relationship there. It depends on how much you value this relationship.

If he were as good a friend to you as you are to him, he would naturally offer you some kind of payment. It is up to you whether or not to take it. On the other hand, if he expects you to continue using you tractor and equipment for nothing, he is definitely taking advantage of your kindness as a friend.

I have a policy of sorts on this issue. When it comes to friends, relatives, and neighbors, I don’t charge or expect any payment. On the other hand, as someone else has said, if they offer, I accept. The only problem with this policy is that when you accept what they offer they think you are indebted to them from now on. HTH. Rick H. Ga.

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souNdguy

03-19-2003 07:36:48




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 Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Andy, 03-19-2003 04:23:26  
How about helping him find a nice inexpensive tractor.. then he can learn and have fun.. and come visit here..

Soundguy



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George Willer

03-19-2003 07:20:18




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 Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Andy, 03-19-2003 04:23:26  
Andy,

True friends don't charge each other for favors! Equipment, on the other hand, doesn't understand friendship. Maintainance expenses really do require cash...along with the original purchase. For that reason, I never accept payment for my help. BUT!!! I never refuse a donation to the tractor fund.

George Willer



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pat

03-19-2003 06:45:39




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 Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Andy, 03-19-2003 04:23:26  
how good of a friend? do you guys do back and forth work, like does he have an expertise in a field and you trade off, one hand washes the other?. there are a lot of variables, but if it is a take take relationship with no giving back, do what has been said, tell him, maybe he actually thinks it does not bother you,, sometimes friends need help , but when it gets to be a constant chore or job,, then you must speak up,, the call has to be yours,, but being in that spot,, and if he is a true friend, he will understand,, and if nit well, you will have to live with it,, if he understands that your time is worth something, see if he can help you out around your place with something,,,, or see if he is man enuff to pay you something, you wont charge him your full rate,,, but,,,,, there are only a few things that can come between friends and even family and that I think is money,,, any advice you get here dont amount to a hill of beans tho, because we dont know the guy or what kind of relationship you guys have, I know there are neighbors I will flip over backwards for,, with no pay expected,, and then others who are users,, I just find a way to wean myself away from the moochers,,, there is always so much to do,, spring is here {lawn} summer is here{vacation}fall is here{firewood} they soon get the picture,, or dont,, your call, pat

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don t. - 9n180179

03-19-2003 09:43:10




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 Re: Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to pat, 03-19-2003 06:45:39  
I completly agree w/ya Pat. An ex-coworker does HVAC work. I don't get his services for free but at a greatly reduced rate cuz I store his horse and snow mobile trailers at my place. I also get the added fringe benefit of fishing w/him whenever he goes. In our case, it works and I think it works well.
FWIW...don t. ....



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dale b

03-19-2003 04:59:15




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 Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Andy, 03-19-2003 04:23:26  
i think you may have already let this go too far...
does he come over and help you?
does he pay, what you think the job is worth?
does he help with the work? loading and unloading of tractor. i dont mean useing the tractor, i mann with straps, chains, shovels ect?

friends can be great!
on the other hand, SOME friends like my tractors and pick up more then me....
hhmmmmm mm
dale b

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DavidO

03-19-2003 04:48:51




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 Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Andy, 03-19-2003 04:23:26  
Tell him just what you told us. If he is truly a friend, it will not be a problem. If he is just taking advantage of your good nature, then you will know.



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Ron (8n509270)

03-19-2003 04:32:02




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 Re: OT - To charge or not to charge... in reply to Andy, 03-19-2003 04:23:26  
Your both friends and adults, talk to him. Let HIM tell you what he thinks.



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