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Oh Compressor/sandblaster Experts...Help!

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RICK/GA

03-22-2003 16:03:59




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Just bought my first sandblasting toy this week, a blast cabinet. Beginning to work on smaller parts to my 740 that I have taken completely apart. Seems to be a great item and a must have. My old 3.5 HP - 15 gallon Sears Compressor did OK for a long while. It seems to have given out but before it did it seemed to have an appropriate air flow to maintain sandblasting. First day of sandblasting in my life (inspiring). Here are my questions.

1) Why do compressor ratings all state higher volumetric flows (CFMs) at lower pressures?

2) For outdoor sandblasting of my 740 body how many CFMs should I have at a minimum?

3) Describe difference between single stage and dual stage and do I have to have dual stage to do outdoor blasting?

These compressors range from a few hundred to many thousands. Don't think the wife will go with the couple thousand kind!

Any help appreciated.

Thanks

RICK/GA

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Get castiron, stay away from aluminum

03-23-2003 17:52:38




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 Re: Oh Compressor/sandblaster Experts...Help! in reply to RICK/GA, 03-22-2003 16:03:59  
!



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David - OR

03-23-2003 08:01:09




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 Re: Oh Compressor/sandblaster Experts...Help! in reply to RICK/GA, 03-22-2003 16:03:59  
1) pv = nRT

5 cfm of air at 100 PSI is the same mass of air per minute as 10 cfm at 50 PSI

The energy required is proportional to the total mass of air delivered, so the fixed sized motor on the compressor should be able to deliver more of the "low energy" low pressure air than the "high energy" high pressure air. It doesn't follow the ideal gas law perfectly due to its fixed size and compression ratio, but will deliver more air at low pressure.

2) Assuming you are using a pressure pot, a 3/32 nozzle takes 7 cfm and cleans 0.5 square feet per minute. a 1/8 nozzle takes 15 cfm and cleans 1.0 square feet per minute, and a 5/32 nozzle takes 25 cfm and cleans 1.5 square feet per minute.

For stripping paint from something as big as a tractor, a 1/8 tip goes about as slowly as I would want to bother with.

The tips wear as you use them, so the CFM needs go up over time (as does the cleaning rate). If buying a compressor with a lot of sandblasting in mind, don't bother with anything less than 15 cfm.

As a point of reference, my 5 horsepower 2 stage Ingersol Rand compressor runs flat out driving a worn 1/8 tip. It isn't really quite enough compressor for this workload. If I were buying another compressor for sandblasting, I'd go up to at least 7.5 horsepower.

3) Two stage compressors have two cylinders. The output of the first cylinder (now higher pressure partially compressed air) is fed into the input of the second cylinder. Typically the interconnect pipe between the cylinders is finned to create an aftercooler.

The two stage approach is more efficient, and also enables the production of output pressures higher than any single stage system can reach. The receiver tank stores the high pressure air, and thus represents more stored energy at 175 PSI than at 125 PSI. This gives you the potential for a "burst of power", obtaining more CFM (for a while) than the compressor can produce steady state.

Two stage vs. single stage is pretty much moot for sandblasting at 90PSI. What you need is 15 to 20 cfm at 90 psi full time, however the compressor gets there. A $900 compressor will get you in at the low end of suitability, and $1200 to $1500 would be fine for hobby level work.

I recommend looking around for reasonably priced special purpose blast media, and not using beach sand. Regular sand contains free silica, which can cause silicosis. This is the reason why OSHA requires supplied air respirators for sandblasting. Around here, we can buy silica-free crushed recycled glass for $0.10 per pound. Other locales have such products as "Black Beauty" (crushed coal slag) with similar benefits. 700 pounds or so will do an N-series tractor without attempting to re-use the media.

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RICK/GA

03-23-2003 15:39:43




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 Re: Re: Oh Compressor/sandblaster Experts...Help! in reply to David - OR, 03-23-2003 08:01:09  
David:

Thanks for taking the time to reply with such a detailed post. This is just the kind of thing that makes the free posting on this website great. I remember well the pv=nRT from high school and college. Got lots of cobwebs in that department now. I was just looking at an IR 3hp 60 gallon single stage compressor for $400. Good price for an IR but sounds like not enough for outdoor sandblasting. I think renting or having someone come out to do it may be the best way to go. I'll do all the small pieces in my cabinet. I used aluminum oxide. Very expensive but seems to do well. Masonry company here sells "sandblasting sand" for less than $20 for a 90 pound bag. I'm going to keep looking for options.

Thanks again for your advice!

RICK/GA

p.s. Brother Jeff writes for the Corvailis Gazette-Times (Sports). You in the area?

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2fordsmike...this is GREAT info on sandblasting!

03-23-2003 12:31:09




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 Re: Re: Oh Compressor/sandblaster Experts...Help! in reply to David - OR, 03-23-2003 08:01:09  
David: Thanks for this excellent info. All of us who read it learn a lot. My antique tractor friends say it's just about impossible to buy too much air compressor for sand blasting, after they have tried it with several almost-seemed-big-enough compressors. One who is satisfied bought a gas-powered trailer-mounted rig designed to run a contractor jack hammer. Mike-Iowa



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duey

03-22-2003 19:57:39




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 Re: Oh Compressor/sandblaster Experts...Help! in reply to RICK/GA, 03-22-2003 16:03:59  
Your question on higher CFM's at lower pressure.... for simplicity just call it the facts of life in the world of squeezing air. Just the way it is.

If you just have to buy a new unit.... and you think you'll need alot of CFM... the two stage is what I'd get. If the two stage pumps weren't so *durn* expensive, I'd consider replacing my two cylinder single stage Sears pump. It works pretty much nonstop spraying paint. But it still works and has since about 1974. duey

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two words . . . Dell (WA)

03-22-2003 19:25:14




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 Re: Oh Compressor/sandblaster Experts...Help! in reply to RICK/GA, 03-22-2003 16:03:59  
Rick..... ...RENT ONE..... .Check into renting a gasoline engine operated air compressor. This sandblasting project should only last a few hour/days if you're smart. Yeah I know, renting is a pain but it is cheaper than buying a big enuff puffer..... .Dell



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John,PA..Compressors

03-22-2003 19:07:29




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 Re: Oh Compressor/sandblaster Experts...Help! in reply to RICK/GA, 03-22-2003 16:03:59  
I do not want to sound like any authority on the engineering of air compressors. It has been my observations as follows:

I like the "open drive" style of compressor. That is the kind that has an electric motor and belt that drives the compressor.

I have a 2 hsp. system with 20 gal. tank. The cfm of air delivery is 10.5 cfm at 125 pounds air pressure. The system is portable. 220volt/115 volt operation. I have the system set for 220 volt. This way it actually uses less electric.

I have noticed, recently, that the "oil-less" type of compressors are generally "all one unit".
We call this type semi-hermetic. This means that if there is a problem with the electric motor, the whole system is generally shot.

The horsepower is increased by turning the electric motor of the oil-less type to give same CFM delivery that the oil-stle belt drive gives.

Therefore to obtain the required cfm or air for your sandblaster, you will probably require as high as 5 horseposer with the newer oil-less system.

Even though the electric motor on my 2 hsp. system tturns 3450 rpm, the compressor is only turning approx. 750 rpm. because the pulley on the compressor is much larger than on the motor.

If I were going to purchase a new system, I believe that I would stay with the old style.

Sears and Roebuck has generally a nice assortment of compressor systems. Take the time to check them out. The slower the compressor turns, the longer the system will last, with normal care.

Your sandblaster equipment should recommend the air cfm's that the manufacturer recommends.

You should be expective to spend 350.00 to 400.00 for a new compressor system.

Everyone has a favorite sytle. Portable or stationary, horsepower, etc. So I am sure that there will be some MORE QUALIFIED posts to your inquirory. Hope this has helped. :})

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