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N Engine balance

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2NTim

05-24-2003 08:38:16




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If the "original" N engine was designed with cast iron pistons, aren't the crank counterweights WAY off when you rebuild with the aluminum pistons? I know this isn't the same as a high-revving auto engine, but I would think that it's a mile off from being balanced...no? Anybody had any experience along these lines?




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Big Bo

05-24-2003 14:01:52




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 Re: N Engine balance in reply to 2NTim, 05-24-2003 08:38:16  
Trying desperately to recall my old (very old) racing days, I seem to remember when an engine was "balanced and blueprinted" the crank was balanced and each pistons/rod assembly were weighed to make sure each weighed the same. I would think that on a 2200 rpm 4 cyl. engine the issue would not be as critical as on an 8000 rpm V8. Hope I'm remembering right, been a long time since the '50's-'60's.

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Dave OH

05-24-2003 14:33:34




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 Re: Re: N Engine balance in reply to Big Bo , 05-24-2003 14:01:52  
Old, old days is right. If I remember right the factory Chevy 327cid could pull 7000rpm after which you paid the price. Ford engines could not rev that high. I better watch it, this is a "Ford" Board. OK, Ford could pull more than the 2400 rpm of the tractor. Still liked my 57' Dodge D-500 though.
Dave OH



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Hal/WA

05-24-2003 21:25:26




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 Re: Re: Re: N Engine balance in reply to Dave OH, 05-24-2003 14:33:34  
I had a 57 Dodge D-500 too. Neat car, good handling and very fast. Better in the quarter mile than any stock 57 Chevy with automatic that I ever ran against.... But more or less done making any power at about 5000 rpm. I loved the exhaust sound it made, almost as good as a 56 Merc. I sure wish the car hadn't rusted so bad. I kept the D-500 hemi engine and torqueflite for years and sold it about 7 or 8 years ago to a friend. The rebuilt engine now powers a real nice restored 57 convert which sports dual 4 barrel carbs. Good to hear it again and know it didn't just go to the scrap yard with the rest of the car.

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Too much info

05-24-2003 13:42:40




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 Re: N Engine balance in reply to 2NTim, 05-24-2003 08:38:16  
An inline engines crankshaft is balanced bare, just like a driveshaft or a tire. The pistons weight is not concidered, therefore changes to the pistons material do not matter. With measurements of it's weight and length a formula is used to determine an RPM to rotate the crankshaft while balancing. First the crank is balanced then you can add the balancer/hub, balance it and then the flywheel and then the pressure plate and do them also. The balancer/hub and flywheel/pressure plate can also be balanced indepentantly on a mandrel made for doing just that. The connecting rods are balanced end for end. Each end is supported and the ends matched, making all the pin ends weigh the same and all the big (bearing) ends weigh the same. Usual procceedure is to remove material from heavier rods to match the lightest. The piston/pin/locks and rings as an assembly are then matched to one another, again reducing the heavier parts to match the lightest. Thats it for an inline. Because it's two pistons up and two down all the time (four cyl), their weights offset each other. You can vary piston weight from stock without a problem as long as you change them all. For V-type engines it gets more complicated. Then changes as you asked about can matter.

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2NTim

05-24-2003 14:46:11




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 Re: Re: N Engine balance in reply to Too much info, 05-24-2003 13:42:40  
Excellent explanation...sounds logical...thanks!



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Rob

05-24-2003 10:38:55




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 Re: N Engine balance in reply to 2NTim, 05-24-2003 08:38:16  
Da piston spose to go uppity-down
If'n da piston eber go rounddity-round
Da balance idnah issue any more.



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2NTim

05-24-2003 10:49:26




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 Re: Re: N Engine balance in reply to Rob, 05-24-2003 10:38:55  
Rob, thanks fer the chuckle...though I *do* feel stupid reading that 4 or 5 times and LMAO while sitting alone in my office.

;=)



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jeb2n

05-24-2003 10:04:21




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 Re: N Engine balance in reply to 2NTim, 05-24-2003 08:38:16  
interest point. However, I thought that the crank counteweights were designed to offset the imbalance of the crank itself. I thought that (theoretically), the pistons should balance themselves due to the crank angle (two up, two down, they balance). Therefore, the engine would be "balanced" regardless of what type of materials were used. Think of it this way: You would have to balance every crankshaft WITH pistons AND connecting rods already attached. If you got a new connecting rod, rebalance would be in order. That just wouldn't make sense. Good question, though.

Jeb -way off balance in da head

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2NTim Ya..I see what you

05-24-2003 10:43:32




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 Re: Re: N Engine balance in reply to jeb2n, 05-24-2003 10:04:21  
Actually, what you're describing is *exactly* what's done in racing engines

(whoa...flashback to laying in the gravel in the pits at the drag strip when I was young) ;=)

In ordinary cars (and tractors), It's not necessary because the "part to part" variation in production is close enough. In this case (changing from iron pistons to aluminum)...the variation must be pretty significant. I dunno...just wondering.

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