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Metal prep for primer and paint

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RICK GA

06-12-2003 13:38:32




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This is my first restoration project for my old but new to me 740, the big brother of my 8N.

I have recently picked up my engine from the machine shop and now have new bearings, sleeves and pistons and am ready to begin to reassemble the tractor. First question: 1) Do the paint masters sandblast, prime and paint every part after they put it on the tractor but before they put the sheet metal on? I plan on sandblasting every piece before I put it on the tractor. Second questions: 2) Should I prime every piece I sandblast before I put it on the tractor? Third question: 3) Should I use the wire brush and sander on the engine so as not to get sand in places I don't want? Last question: What do I do about filling the orange peel pitting on various cast pieces so that it can be smooth and can I leave very small signs of rust in the pits?

Thanks for the help guys.

RICK GA 8N, 740 & 841

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DallasGa

06-13-2003 07:56:32




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 Re: Metal prep for primer and paint in reply to RICK GA, 06-12-2003 13:38:32  
Ha Rick, I don't know if I'm a master,but I have painted cars,trailers,tractors,and about everything else that rolls in the last 20 years or so.Here's my take on sandblasting.If your machine is very rusty,with little or no paint then I would blast it.If on the other hand it is greasy,dirty with 4 paint jobs(like most are),I would clean it like Adam suggested,and use chemical stripper to remove the paint. This stuff has come a long way,fast acting,water soluable,low fumes.You'll find it a much better experience than sandblasting in Ga in June. As for primer,I've never found any primer that enamel sticks to better than bare CLEAN steel/iron.The only part I would prime would be the sheet metal to get a slicker finish by sanding the primer.Most of the red is cast iron with the texture of the sand used to cast it,just leave it,Ford did.Don't worry if you get some surface rust,it's gonna happen since it's monsoon season here,the MetalPrep Adam mentioned will remove that.(it's just a mild acid).Assemble everything red and spray it all at once.Adam gave you alot of good advice on the paint,follow it and you'll be fine.Dallas N T.ville

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bg

06-13-2003 00:58:41




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 Re: Metal prep for primer and paint in reply to RICK GA, 06-12-2003 13:38:32  
1st, there is no approved respirator for silica sand, unless it is closed hood with remote air supply. There is no dust mask NIOSH-approved for silica sand.

2nd. I think there are too many folks who think that sandblasting is some Scirroco dust-storm that disables Abrams tanks. I used sandblast masking rubber(get some scraps from your local tonbstone dealer) and duct tape and plastic plugs to seal off my tractor's openings and cracks. You only have to worry about the manifold intake opening, the distributor shaft hole and starter opening and water inlets. Remove any brass fittings and subsitute plastic plugs or correct-thread brass or steel screws or even corks(that's what IH used for years). Sanblasting cleans by the shock of the shattering abrasive, so lots of air pressure and a little bit of sand does the work. A good pressure blaster at 185 cfm and 100 lbs of pressure will take the paint, grease, etc off really quickly, so you don't have to leave the nozzle in any one place too long. I don't use a deadman valve, although OSHA says you need to. It just gets in the way. I use extra fine sand @$5.00/cwt, You won't get any more sand inside your tractor than when you plow a dusty field all day. when you get done, take an air hose and blow the dust away. be prepared to paint immediately, or you'll have a fine rust-coat in a few hours. Ford didn't prime the cast parts and neither did I. Change oil before you start it up.

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Adam P

06-12-2003 19:32:36




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 Re: Metal prep for primer and paint in reply to RICK GA, 06-12-2003 13:38:32  
Hey Rick,
This will be a long one I suppose,
You don't have to sandblast everything...
I don't know what the condition of the tractor is, but this should serve as a springboard. I'll start with assembly, and your sheet metal will be done seperatly…
If you have a bunch of really rusty small parts that would be best off sandblasting, go ahead and blast and prime. More importantly, I would get the tractor back together, and make sure you have a good running machine, ‘cause it just doesn't make sense to be wrenching at a freshly painted tractor.
With that said, you must make sure the tractor is clean. I mean really clean!!! Heavy duty oven cleaner, pressure washed off then followed with a eco friendly degreaser, pressure washed off, then dried really well (hot sun, compressed air / fans etc....)
Now you know what you are looking at...
Sand blasting is a real mess, and unless your geared up for it, (I'll dig up a post I wrote up on it for you), you might be better off sanding and wire brushing... Assuming a lot of rust and scale came off the tractor, well it's time to clean again!!! You do like tractors right???? I would pressure wash and air dry, so you have a clean surface to start laying paint... There is a product called "Metal Prep" available at most auto paint stores that does a real nice job of that final cleaning to your bare metal...
Now that you have bare metal, it Must be primed Right away....
I didn't know where to insert this tid-bit so I'll put it here: As a rule of thumb, you don't sand, or sandblast your castings smooth.... you leave them rough, as this is considered more "correct"
OK Now you have a clean, no bare metal, tractor in front of you with some primer blotches on it where stubborn rust used to be. I'm going to start with the idea that you’re spraying the paint... I would say use a sandable primer, with a touch more thinner and a bit more air, (you got to play with this to see what I mean...) and begin priming the tractor. The primer will be light and want to go everywhere. This is good; you want it in all the nooks and crannies... (Except of course were you've taped off because you don't want it painted.) Change the gun mix ratios to make the primer less “light and airy” and get the whole tractor primed. Wow!!! Starting to look like something spiffy!!! Let it dry. It's time to sand back some of the primer to get rid of any surface imperfections. See how it looks, and re-prime. Also let me point out, that you do not want to be to thick with the primer. A lot of people don't know this, but with too much primer, the primer soaks up the color in the paint...not good. If you thought you were a bit heavy handed with the primer, you could always use a primer sealer to prevent that from happening...
Well now it's time to paint, and since your new at this, I would recommend a good acrylic enamel, as opposed to two stage base coat / clear coat, and make sure all the products come from the same manufacture.
AP
APAudVid@aol.com
PS Don’t forget to post a before and after photo here in the photo gallery!!!
AP


Some of my previous posts…

Degreasing
You'll get a lot of replies on this one... I like Heavy Duty Easy Off oven cleaner. That one seems to be the best. Spray it on, let it soak for a while, then spray some more on and work in with a brush. Then rinse/wash off with a pressure washer if you have one. (Or a blast tip on a good pressure garden hose) Then you might want to use a spray on/rinse off citric degreaser for follow up....

Sandblasting
Hey, was just going through the posts and thought I'd reply. I have experience with all of them. On the siphon feed type...Very good for a beginner. However (and I did get the chance to return my original siphon feed) don’t go and buy one of the hopper types. Big waste of money. When I first bought my first siphon type (a big $100 dollar hopper model) I noticed I'd been had....I did try it though to see how it worked. Returned it. Went to Wal-Mart and bought there popular brand of the gun only (it did include the hose) for $11 dollars and used one of my wife’s 10-gallon Tupperware storage hoppers ($5). (Also from Wal-Mart) So for sixteen dollars, I'm blasting. Now, on to the pressurized tank.... You really need patience for this one. And honestly a lot of jerking around to set it set up right. By the time you figure out how to use the thing the hose valve (blast on-off) will be blasted out. (Leaving you with no control) A good "dead-man" valve will be your next up grade to the rig. And it will offer some nice control. Sandblasting is wonderful when you get the hang of it. Ultimately you will be spending money. You'll learn about silicosis, and get a good respirator, and a set off goggles. Then you'll head out and pull the trigger, and really realize that the sand gets everywhere, in you hair, down your back, and then some too!!!, you'll find sand in places on ya that you will not understand. So, off to buy a jumpsuit, and a nice blasting hood. You go out again, and you’re burning up!!! Your wearing gloves and a suit and a hood Your lenses are steaming over, (off to get anti-fog) the guns getting clogged,,,, what???? why???? Now back out to get the right sand (I know many opinions on sand here) but for now I'll just recommend fine grade sandblasting sand or Black Diamond from your local sand and gravel house. They'll ask ya what you been using, and remind you that it really needs to stay dry. Back to the store again to get an inline filter to remove the water..... .
You will have fun with it once you get going, but getting there can be really frustrating. I would start off with the $16 dollar rig I mentioned earlier, and see if you like it. Myself, I love sandblasting and also knowing that if my wife wants a mirror hung over a wall switch, I can neatly "blast" a cutout through glass...What a "Blast"!!! (But hey, I love welding in hot sun and cold weather too!!!!!
Have fun,
Adam


ISO’s
OK Whether it be sprayed or brushed, or rolled, the hardener is a dangerous factor. It also is the main ingredient to a wonderful enamel paint job. I might use a brush, with paint and hardener and some thinner, just to avoid the brush marks, and do a few coats on the underside and abused areas of the tractor. For safety, I would try to find a nice day to paint outside, and try to stay upwind of the paint. Also, the use of an HVLP paint rig will prevent over spray. (Big clouds of mist) HVLP is a very neat way to go. 3M makes some decent respirators in the under 40-dollar range that you can use, however, they do not filter the isocyanates contained in the hardener. The only real way to combat this is with a positive air respirator system. There is a great deal of talk on this in the paint and bodywork forum here at YTMAG. I have found that the HVLP market is getting pretty competitive, you should be able to find an acceptable gravity feed HVLP gun for under a 100 bucks.
Hope this helps,
Adam P

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Adam P

06-12-2003 17:45:46




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 Re: Metal prep for primer and paint in reply to RICK GA, 06-12-2003 13:38:32  
Hang in there Rick, I'm halfway through writing you on "how to paint a tractor!!!
AP



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