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3 brush generator specs

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Pete

06-13-2003 01:48:39




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Greetings! I'm fairly new to this forum and find it very informative. I've been reading all the recent electrical-related posts and now a question is bugging me: According to specs found here, the 3 brush generator should charge 3A (+or-) at about half throttle. Question -- my '40 9N charges about 8 or 10 A at half throttle. Never had any gen. or other electrical trouble. Tried reducing output via 3rd brush adjustment and that's as low as she goes (although it would put out 15 A or so all the way up, so the adjustment seems to be working.) Checked battery voltage direct across the posts and am at 7.2V with tractor shut down.

Do I just have a generator that's eaten it's wheaties or what? Battery does not boil much, except if running 8+ hours straight at high RPM. Just wondering for curiosity's sake.

Thanks,


Pete

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Dell (WA)

06-13-2003 02:23:45




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 Re: 3 brush generator specs in reply to Pete, 06-13-2003 01:48:39  
Pete..... ..by CHEMICAL LAWS, the lead/acid wetcell, when fully charged is 2.1 volts. This is why 6 volt batterys measure 6.3 volts and 12 volt batterys measure 12.6 volts.

And if your voltmeter is ennywharrs close to accurate, your 7.2 volts without the engine running is indicative of a semi-discharged 8 volt battery. (hint: real 6 volt batterys have ONLY 3 water caps, 8 volters have 4 water caps).

And yes, you can semi-charge an 8 volt battery with the 9N's 3rd brush 11 amp genny. But you can NEVER fully charge an 8 volt battery because the genny internal gutts was designed for about 7.2 volts MAXIMUM no matter where you adjust the 3rd brush.

And as a general rule, using an 8 volt battery in a 6 volt system for eazier starting is only "masking" tired engine problems..... ....Dell

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Pete

06-13-2003 04:21:42




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 Re: Re: 3 brush generator specs in reply to Dell (WA), 06-13-2003 02:23:45  
Dell --

Yea, I thought 7.2 was a bit high too, although I didn't know the 2.1 v/cell number. It is indeed a 6v battery, a New Castle group 1HD, new last year. My meter is a Fluke digital, don't know the model, but I don't have any occasion to disbelieve it. One possibility is that I measured the battery immediately after shutting down from brush hogging about 4 acres (long time running full-throttle) to be sure it was full charged. Do wet cells show a higher voltage for a short time after removing a charge, or do they immediately go right down to battery voltage?

Other ideas I had is what if someone put a 12v generator on at some point and I've just got it cranked way way down? I could fire the tractor up and remove the wire, then measure voltage at the generator output post with the circuit open, but if I understand right a 6v generator should show high voltage under a disconnect condition.

Like I said, everything is running fine but it just didn't sound right. Thanks for your expertise.

Pete

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Lee

06-13-2003 13:29:34




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 Re: Re: Re: 3 brush generator specs in reply to Pete, 06-13-2003 04:21:42  
Hi Pete, I've got a '47 8N that sounds like yours. It shows 10 amps charge on the ammeter in the dash the entire time I run it. I expected a problem from it when I first bought it last Sept. I watched battery water and all that good stuff and expected somethin' to cause me grief. I've used the tractor lots of hours brush hogging, blading the driveway, hauling firewood in the winter etc. and everythings just peachy. It doesn't boil out the battery and always fires right up. It'll show 20 amps charge initially but settles right down to it's "normal" 10 amps. I guess 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' applies here. I'm gonna ignore mine(well I'll still check battery water often) until it's a problem.
Good Luck, Lee

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Dell (WA)

06-13-2003 07:39:34




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 Re: Re: Re: 3 brush generator specs in reply to Pete, 06-13-2003 04:21:42  
Pete..... ...generally, even the cheapest digital voltmeters are 1% accurate, your Fluke should be at least 0.1% accurate and even if it were "outta cal", it still should be somewhat close.

Not certain to what to make of your 7.2 volt reading. What is it after "resting" overnite? Checkitt before you startup the next time.

And NO, its NOT LIKELY that anyone has "converted" your 3rd brush genny to 12 volts. That would be a MAJOR electrical parts re-build/re-design.

I am concerned about your reported 10 amps charge, thats TOO MUCH. You will BOIL your battery dry and warp and short out your plates. Dead battery, not good. 'course you could turn your headlights on and use up some of the "excess amps" (grin).

The again, you're ammeter's calibration could be suspect, they're not "laboratory grade". They usually "loose amps" NOT gain amps. But I think 10 amps is too much. Unfortunately, I don't have anyother ideas..... .....Dell

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Pete

06-15-2003 07:13:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 3 brush generator specs in reply to Dell (WA), 06-13-2003 07:39:34  
Dell --

Checked the battery after sitting shut down for about 2 days -- 6.28 V Just like it's supposed to be. I guess there must be some sort of lag time for the voltage to 'relax' to base battery voltage.

I'm now wondering about the accuracy of the dash ammeter. My Fluke 77 current setting is only capable of 10 A, so I don't think I better try using that to check; I guess I'll see how much a new post-style ammeter is at the Napa and if not too much wire it in temporarily to compare readings.

Thanks for your expertise.

Pete

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Hey, PETE....John,PA

06-13-2003 04:48:01




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 Re: Re: Re: 3 brush generator specs in reply to Pete, 06-13-2003 04:21:42  
You learned me someth'n. I have herd of a lot of NEW CASTLE's, but, I am not familiar with any of those towns mak'b battries.

I send my FLUKE,(tm) meter to the factorie, annually, for recalibration. The factorie will put a calibration label on the meter.

Sometimes, this will make the difference in doing battle with the utility companies for a customer.

So, thanks. Maybe the "New Castle" battrie is actually mfg. by DOUGLAS, Charollette, NC.

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Tom-Pa

06-13-2003 06:01:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 3 brush generator specs in reply to Hey, PETE....John,PA, 06-13-2003 04:48:01  
John, New Castle Battery Manufacturing Co. is located in New Castle, Pa. (Western Pa). asearch for New Castle Battery will bring it up.
Tom-Pa



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Thanks, TomTom...John,

06-13-2003 19:02:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3 brush generator specs in reply to Tom-Pa, 06-13-2003 06:01:50  



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Hi,Dell....John,PA

06-13-2003 03:49:55




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 Re: Re: 3 brush generator specs in reply to Dell (WA), 06-13-2003 02:23:45  
Found my pocket size Jeppessen slide rule the other day. You know, those E6b type that are round. Got the heading side refreshed. Now I am using the computing side to figger"

If I want my water pump to deliver approx 1.5 gph. at a rate of "blank" rpm's, what size pulley should be on a 1725rpm, 1945 vintage maytag electric motor. Oh yea, the pulley on the pump is much larger, 'bout 12 inches, maybe 16, I think.


Let's see: The formula was: driven pulley divided by rpm's X's driving pulley divided by gal. per hr. equalls: 3 inch pulley on the ole maytag Does this sound 'bout wright?

Now bout the belt length: driven pulley divided by pies of someth'n times driving pulley all over divided by , anyhow this will be close to the 4L056 class A bel t out there in the shed.


Well at depth of 32 feet should provide adequate to fill one of my 55 gal drums, solar heated to temp of 96.5 F. This water, same as the water used to water the mules that were on this property during the 1st day's battle some time ago, should be adequate to shower with in the outhouse that I plan on constructing for in the back yard. By turning in my older brother, the local twsp. GAVE me a permit for my outhouse!~Have a great day?

Any formulas that are accurate for any of the computations above, please forward.

John

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sorry . . . Dell (WA)

06-13-2003 07:42:14




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 Re: Re: Re: 3 brush generator specs in reply to Hi,Dell....John,PA, 06-13-2003 03:49:55  
John..... ..you're way over my head with your circular Jeppson flight computer..... ...Dell



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That's ok...John,PA

06-13-2003 18:57:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 3 brush generator specs in reply to sorry . . . Dell (WA), 06-13-2003 07:42:14  
I am start'n to clean out some of my "tech-manuals" from the University of PA,

Even though I was never "qualified" to enroll there, I would buy the books at their bookstore. I would Study them while operating Boeing equipment on LONG LEGS over the "Pond" on our way to places like ROTA, Spain, Thule, and other places that don't exist anymore.

Princeton was another option. Got to know the president. Almost gave this person a lot of family money, but then something broke and needed some more SEARS credit.

Anyhow, I will post some machinist info. from time to time. Maybe some of the young'ns on this forum might want the formulas to attach to thier tool-box lids. cAN Score points working on the boss's stuff!

By the way, the copyrights expired on these data sheets right after the WAR OF 1812.

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