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Hydraulic pump blows gasket

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Randy A

07-14-2003 07:18:54




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I rebuilt the pump on my 9N, the pump works fine until I run it for 20-30 minutes and them the pump blows the gasket out from between the pump housing and the valve plate on the pressure side. I have replaced the gasket two times and no luck.

Anyone know why it would be blowing the gasket?

thanks




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ZANE

07-14-2003 19:33:25




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 Re: hydraulic pump blows gasket in reply to Randy A, 07-14-2003 07:18:54  
Be absolutely sure that there is no oil on the bolt holes that hold the pump plates to the housing. If there is oil in the bolt holes it can cause a false touque reading and can actually break the pump housing if forced on down with oil at the bottom of the hole.

The oil and the fact that these bolts are fine threaded and are a tight fitting bolt because of the fact that it is going into aluminum makes it even more likely to have this liquid lock condition. Blow out the holes with compressed air. Be sure that there is no silicone glue in those bolt holes either.

Zane

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David - OR

07-14-2003 07:56:49




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 Re: hydraulic pump blows gasket in reply to Randy A, 07-14-2003 07:18:54  
Ideas --

The mating surfaces are not flat (check with straightedge).

You are using gasket cement or silicone. Don't.

You are not torqueing the cover bolts enough. The pump uses heavy bolts on this assembly for a reason. Look up the torque specs and use a torque wrench. Be especially careful if you have an aluminum pump body. Torque it down in a diagonal pattern, and in stages, like it was a cylinder head.

The pressure relief valve is set too high, and you are lifting something very, very heavy.

The control valve is not working properly. After the lift arms come up all the way, the pump keeps pumping against the relief valve instead of shutting off. Eventually, the gasket succumbs to the high pressure.

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Rob

07-14-2003 07:50:05




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 Re: hydraulic pump blows gasket in reply to Randy A, 07-14-2003 07:18:54  
You are torqueing to the proper specs right?



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Randy A

07-14-2003 08:07:52




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 Re: Re: hydraulic pump blows gasket in reply to Rob, 07-14-2003 07:50:05  
what are the torque specs, the Ford dealer told me they use an air gun to snug it up.



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Rob

07-14-2003 12:20:16




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 Re: Re: Re: hydraulic pump blows gasket in reply to Randy A, 07-14-2003 08:07:52  
Hey, David gave you some torque specs assuming you can id the bolt grade. The parts book doesn't give a grade so grade 2 assumed; for what that's worth.
If you want to avoid the occasional situation such as this then start seeing to it that you have the torque specs when you reassemble regardless of what anyone tells you. They aren't the guy that has to go back in and do it again.
If you don't have an FO-4 spec or some other authority then use the general torque spec for the bolt size, thread, and grade.
Decades ago I picked up a shirt pocket book at the hardware store that showed grade indentifications, torque specs, thread specs, and on and on specs for just about anything including welding gases, metal temp colors, computer ports, paint, glues and on and on and oh yeah...conversion factors. Love the book. Use the torque specs more then anything.
Now, only time I have a leaky gasket is when I was a lazy dumb butt.

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David - OR

07-14-2003 08:32:27




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 Re: Re: Re: hydraulic pump blows gasket in reply to Randy A, 07-14-2003 08:07:52  
Air guns are notoriously inaccurate when it comes to getting correct fastener tension. Even good tire stores will use a torque wrench to do final tension on lug nuts. A tractor dealer that would use an air gun for a critical assembly like your hydraulic pump is not one I'd trust for very many repairs.

No torque spec is given in the FO-4 manual for these bolts. They are 7/16 - 20 NF capscrews. If we assume grade 2 bolts and an aluminum housing, the table value for torque is 40 ft-lbs.

If it is a cast iron housing, you could assume roughly grade 5 specs for the bolts, and go up as high as 50 ft-lbs.

The above figures are for clean, dry threads. If you use oil or anti-sieze, lower the numbers about 20% -- but you are really on your own here.

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Rob

07-14-2003 07:48:48




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 Re: hydraulic pump blows gasket in reply to Randy A, 07-14-2003 07:18:54  
Probable a bad mating surface. Could be an overpressure but I can't really speak to that.
I can give a hint on the mating surface. I clean those surfaces up best I can and then I take a 2" x 6" stone and hone the surface. The stone shows any high spots and gives me a shiney new gasket surface. Machine shop can't do better. If that surface is warped it will most likely show if you go to honing the surface like I say. You can hone out any high spot without being too concerned about removing too much mat'l and it sure does take off any burrs easily.
I've had very good gasket performance since I started dressing up maiting surfaces with my stone. Don't use oil on the mating surfaces with that stone. Get a can of Magic Tap or some other cutting fluid. You need it to keep the stone from loading up and to get the fastest cut. The cut is none too fast with a honing stone anyway.
I got that stone for $9 at Ace Hdwe and the fluid for another $7. It's the most course stone they had. I can sharpen my knives on the other side.

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souNdguy

07-14-2003 12:12:08




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 Re: Re: hydraulic pump blows gasket in reply to Rob, 07-14-2003 07:48:48  
I'll add something I do when lapping / honing materials. I use a blue die ( used for honing / fitting gun parts / crowns... ) you die the mating surface, hone, and the areas that are high get the die worn off.. showing the low areas..

The die is a tad expensive, and I've found a permanent marker works just as good, as long as the surface is clean.

Soundguy



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Rob

07-14-2003 12:26:50




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 Re: Re: Re: hydraulic pump blows gasket in reply to souNdguy, 07-14-2003 12:12:08  
I bought a tube of Prussian Blue at the auto parts store just the other day. <$3. Will last me a lifetime if I don't forget where I put it.



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souNdguy

07-14-2003 12:32:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: hydraulic pump blows gasket in reply to Rob, 07-14-2003 12:26:50  
Is that a paste? sounds liek a similar product.. only easier to use and cheaper.. figures.. if it has to do with 'guns' .. it would be more expen$ive...

Thanks,

Soundguy



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Rob

07-14-2003 13:34:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: hydraulic pump blows gasket in reply to souNdguy, 07-14-2003 12:32:42  
Yeah it's a paste. You wipe it on really thin, you just want to stain it blue is all. Blue as can be, little bit goes a long ways.



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