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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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New starter drive-Bang!-Start over?

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Rich1

08-13-2003 11:36:30




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I just completed replacing the starter drive and ring gear in my 2N. After I finished, I started it five times in a row, smile on face, working fine. On the sixth, bang!-and I mean big bang!- coming from the starter. Then all I could get was a wine from the starter when I tried to engage it. I removed the starter and found that the gear on the bendix had split along the length of the gear, on both sides, and the teeth on the end part of the bendix would no longer engage where it is suppose to ratchet, thus it would wine. The ring gear had the top part of one tooth gone and shaved off half of another. No more smiles!
I took the starter and bendix to a large New Holland repair shop to see what the mechanics would say. I had installed a new clutch type bendix, as recommended by several people in this board, and it was the one New Holland recommended. They said the starter was fine, but suggested that my conversion to 12v might be the problem. Is this common in a 12v conversion or am I doing something wrong? Does the 6 volt starter spin with too much force with 12v? Was the new bendix faulty, and I should put in another? Are the fractured two teeth on the ring gear worth trying another bendix on it without tearing it down again?
Need some ideas before I do it again!

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Evil Steve

08-13-2003 12:42:00




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 Re: New starter drive-Bang!-Start over? in reply to Rich1, 08-13-2003 11:36:30  
Sorry about that trouble. First, converting to 12 volt had nothing to do with the cause. Your New Holland guy outta know that. All 12v will do is spin the starter faster.

From your description of the damage, I'm inclined to think that the teeth on the starter and your ring gear did not properly mesh. Only know of two things to cause this: One is your ring gear installation. It may have slipped. Other is that the sarter was not perpendicular to the housing causing the bendix to engage the ring gear teeth at an angle.

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ATW/WA

08-13-2003 12:06:38




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 Re: New starter drive-Bang!-Start over? in reply to Rich1, 08-13-2003 11:36:30  
Rich, Wow, I can see why you starter was whining, I would too!!! I have seen alot of 12 volt conversions and never see that to be the cause of a failure in mechanical components of the starting system.

Was the starter new, rebuilt, remanufactured or your old starter with a new bendix? Who installed the bendix?

The damage you describe sounds as if the bendix "walked out, away from the ring gear". Possibly caused by bushing wear, bolts not tight enough, starter that was remanufactured too many times( the case was out of spec).

Nothing that 12 volts should do.

I had a new(remanufactured) starter put in my motor home five years ago. While installing it the mechanic dropped the starter. We checked it out( the shop owner, myself and the mechanic) no visible damage. This year that starter suffered a catastrophic failure. Luck be with me, the shop owner is a friend, hunting and fishing buddy. The day it was installed we were headed to Elk camp, he remembered it well, and he stood by his word.

Give the 12 volt a break and look elsewhere.

ATW/WA

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Rich1

08-13-2003 12:43:01




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 Re: Re: New starter drive-Bang!-Start over? in reply to ATW/WA , 08-13-2003 12:06:38  
Thanks for the reply. I agree that I think it did just as you said, "walked over the ring gear."

I used my old (not so old, remanufactured) starter and I put on the bendix. The mechanics said that they did not see anything wrong with the starter, ie., bushings, etc., or what I had done in replacing the bendix. They said that if the bushings were that shot to travel over the ring gear, the starter armature would hang up on the fields.

Could it be that the gear on the bendix split lengthwise when it engaged so that the enlarged spacing of the teeth caused it to travel over the ring gear?

Where do I go from here to get rid of the "whine"? More wine!

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ATW/WA

08-13-2003 14:51:44




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 Re: Re: Re: New starter drive-Bang!-Start over? in reply to Rich1, 08-13-2003 12:43:01  
Rich, I tend agree with what the Evil Steve said. If you look through the posts on bendix, you'll find references to the difficulty installing a starter with this bendix. If it was not a faulty mechanical part, it might have been the installation. Could it have been a faulty bendix? definately yes. Could it have been a faulty ring gear? definately yes.

We always look at fractured metal to see if there was any sign of cyclic fatigue stress, ancient fracture, impact, torsion or in the case of new parts, faulty manufacturing, defective materials or fit(misidentified part/wrong application).

To move on, you said you broke a tooth off the ring gear, it will have to come out. Remove and Replace. You did not have to beat it on, I hope. It should slide on with no interference, then shrink to fit. You'll have to replace the bendix, eyeball both the bendix and ring gear "very carefully" before you walk out of the store.

If it is any condolences, my $2400.00 irrigation pump rebuild this year lasted all of about six hours(bearing failure). But it took several days of "negotation" to get the repair shop to eat the repair and replace, much less to put me back at the top of the priority list for repair.

On the lighter side, what did the grapes say about this? Beat me, Stomp me, make me WINE.

ATW/WA

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BOB FRIES

08-13-2003 19:50:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: New starter drive-Bang!-Start over in reply to ATW/WA , 08-13-2003 14:51:44  
new problem,I need help with rear brake shoe installation also all seals--and why is the backing plate worn to a sharp edge on outside--working on a 1947 8-N ?????can I download instructions from someplace. THANKS



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Dell (WA)

08-14-2003 01:50:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New starter drive-Bang!-Start in reply to BOB FRIES, 08-13-2003 19:50:24  
Hi Bob..... ....are you any relation to my little boy's favorite "curley fries"? (grin)

Be BRAVE, start a NEW THREAD question about your brake problems, instead of hiding your question at the back of a question thread about starter problems.

May I suggest you seriously consider the merits of your very own personal copy of the I&T FO-4 maintenance manual? It even has pictures. Readily available at sponsers of this great N-Board. Most agriculture supply emporiums. Amazon.com, www.n-news.com also has great archive of over 400 3-point implements built for the cat-1 8N tractor. Most Ford/New Holland dealer sell it, isn't that amazing? Why even my local John Deere dealer (byte my tongue) has it for sale at their parts counter. $27 cheap, gettcha one and readitt..... ...respectfully, Dell

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