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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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I'm starting to CRY.........

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RussMO

11-12-2003 14:43:04




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A short review. Split 2n and replaced ring gear, clutch plate, throwout bearing. and smaller flywheel bearing, new starter, starter drive, oil change, flushed radiator added antifreeze, waxed and even painted tires.
This afternoon took it out to cut some hills of grass with finishing mower. Recently I've noticed it pinging going up hills during cutting grass. Well as I was going up a hill white smoke stated coming out of the exhaust. This is not a new problem with this 2N. I have put two new head gastets and had machine shop work head over the last time a year ago.
Pulled plugs and three were perfect and the number (1) plug was wet with antifreeze. No sign of water in new oil or oil in radiator.
Think it is another head gasket or something worse? I'm getting really good changing the head gasket or maybe not?
Your thoughts will be appreciated..... ..

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chuck

11-13-2003 07:25:15




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 Re: I'm starting to CRY......... in reply to RussMO, 11-12-2003 14:43:04  
Russ, I had a crack in the head above one of the cylinders. It wasn't easy to see until they magnifluxed it. A new head was only $137. Could be the source of the water in the cylinder.

chuck
436244



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RussMO

11-13-2003 05:57:38




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 Re: I'm starting to CRY......... in reply to RussMO, 11-12-2003 14:43:04  

Thanks everyone for the help. I am going to check compression and remove head. Being in the St. Louis metro area gives me access to parts, machine shops and etc.

Thanks Again..... ...



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duey

11-12-2003 21:05:31




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 Re: I'm starting to CRY......... in reply to RussMO, 11-12-2003 14:43:04  
Russ, it's discouraging to get all the troubles repeating themselves... but hang in there. On the pinging: not a good thing, its hard on ANY engine. It is likely caused by one of two things in your tractor.... hot carbon spots setting off the mixture too far in ahead of normal spark plug timing (not likely on a near new engine) or a TOO LEAN mixture. The lean mixture would be MY long distance guess. On your carb, when it is running again, open the main metering needle a third turn (unscrew) and compare the sounds/performance. (That's the big one pointing downward...) To a point, a richer mixture is cooler burning and may bring better power. stay in touch duey

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Bob

11-12-2003 19:55:34




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 Re: I'm starting to CRY......... in reply to RussMO, 11-12-2003 14:43:04  
The compression on 'N's is so low some resurfacing of the head shouldn't get it into the "detonation" range of compression ratio. Solve your leak problem, and make sure your timing is not too early.



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JohN 50

11-12-2003 18:45:17




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 Re: I'm starting to CRY......... in reply to RussMO, 11-12-2003 14:43:04  
When you remove the head this time do it carefully, so as not to upset the gasket to much. You should with careful examination determine the spot where the gasket is leaking. Then check your head and block for level or cracks there. It is highly unlikely the head was planned enough to increase compression enough to use the high priced go juice, the valves would strike the head long before the compression got that high.

Another thing to check BEFORE you remove the head, are the bolts all HOLDING the correct torque. You could have a bolt that is not holding due to worn threads in the block.

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RAR/IA

11-12-2003 18:54:38




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 Re: Re: I'm starting to CRY......... in reply to JohN 50, 11-12-2003 18:45:17  
If the compression isn't too high, then what is causing the pinging?

Roger



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JohN 50

11-13-2003 16:32:41




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 Re: Re: Re: I'm starting to CRY......... in reply to RAR/IA, 11-12-2003 18:54:38  
Ignition timing, I would suggest check the advance to make sure it is not frozen or worn. Pinging can also be caused by an engine running to hot but not hot enough to appear over heated.



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RAR/IA

11-12-2003 18:09:52




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 Re: I'm starting to CRY......... in reply to RussMO, 11-12-2003 14:43:04  
Is it always the same cylinder that has the problem? Perhaps it is the pinging that is causing the problem. Are you running 87 octane or less? Try the good stuff. Also better check the timing advance. Need to determine what is blowing the gasket and detonation (pinging) can do it.

My $.02
Roger



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RAR/IA

11-12-2003 18:15:52




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 Re: Re: I'm starting to CRY......... in reply to RAR/IA, 11-12-2003 18:09:52  
Should have read more closely. You said head had been worked on at machine shop. The only thing they could have done is milled it. That increased the compression ratio!!! You may have to run premium or even racing fuel to prevent detonation if they milled too much of it off!! Run the good stuff and check timing! May have to replace the head.

The increased compression may fail the gasket. What are your compression pressures?

Roger
Roger

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week N warrior / MO

11-12-2003 17:46:09




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 Re: I'm starting to CRY......... in reply to RussMO, 11-12-2003 14:43:04  
That's bad but it may not be that bad.
I may be able to help you out.
First thing you need to do is get a straight edge.
This should be one designed for checking engines.
Not a framing square or something like that. Barrow one from the machine shop or somewhere. Get them to show you how to use it if you don't know how. With it you can determine if your block is warped or something.
If that is your problem you may be able to fix it with out pulling the engine. Here's how I did it on my 2 ton truck that I bought with a blown gasket. First I just replaced the gasket and it blew again. So the next time I got a straight edge and found the block had a sunken in place of 0.003 by one of the water jackets. I got a 2x6 about 8 inches longer than the block. Made a handle out of a 2x4 that ran length wise down the back of it. Counter sink the screws in the 2x6 so that you can run it threw a jointer. That will get the 2x6 perfectly flat. Then I got some sand paper and stapled it to it. Where I got the sand paper was from a 25 pound box of ends and remnant pieces that a company sells for $25. Let me know if you want their address and I'll see if I can dig it up. The paper is cloth backed. It the kind use to make large belts for big factory type sanders. Some are pretty long rolls. Comes in handy for a lots of things. Oh well, Back to the block. I packed the cylinders with paper towels. Then a got a big jar of Vaseline and capped them off. That will keep the metal shavings out. Clean any Vaseline off the surface you are going to sand. Then you just get to work. Takes alots of elbow grease. but you can sand that block back down flat. I think I spent about two and a half hours working on it. Sure beats pulling the engine and tearing it down when ever thing else is OK. O'course if you engine is ready for a rebuild, best to just yank it out and let the machine shop deal with it.
Where in Missouri are you?

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bj/8n/mt

11-12-2003 17:11:42




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 Re: I'm starting to CRY......... in reply to RussMO, 11-12-2003 14:43:04  
IF you used a metal head gasket try a composition gasket. If you used bolts or pulled the studs put sealer on the ones around that cylinder. Would try either/both of these before I had the block surfaced.

Your mileage may vary



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Drmeatman

11-12-2003 19:39:54




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 Re: Re: I'm starting to CRY......... in reply to bj/8n/mt, 11-12-2003 17:11:42  
Someone may have already passed this to you as it was given to me.After you have put the "correct torque" on the head bolts,warm her up fully and then do the torque process again.You might be surprised.



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KCM

11-12-2003 14:57:17




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 Re: I'm starting to CRY......... in reply to RussMO, 11-12-2003 14:43:04  
If you have had the head planed and machined flat, then more than likely the block is warped and needs to be machined flat as well. Unfortunately this requires disassembling the engine. I've used old head gaskets on N's without them leaking, and a head gasket blowing should not be a common occurance. Otherwise you could look for cracks in the block or head, but I would think those leaks would not stop with a new head gasket.

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CJin Michigan

11-12-2003 14:54:07




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 Re: I'm starting to CRY......... in reply to RussMO, 11-12-2003 14:43:04  
Had a similar problem after my recent rebuild-turned out the head bolt I used in one of the front corners was a bit short, letting a bit of antifreeze sneak up the threads.



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JD dozer mike

11-12-2003 18:21:24




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 Re: Re: I'm starting to CRY......... in reply to CJin Michigan, 11-12-2003 14:54:07  
If it turns out too much compression you could use 2 head gaskets to make the difference.



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