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Amp meter reading - Is this right?

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Rich - UT

11-15-2003 16:52:27




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I noticed tonight that my 8N's amp meter never has a positive reading. With the engine running and the lights on the meter reads approx. -7 volts. If I turn the lights the meter reads about -1 or 0 volts. Does this indicate a potential problem? Any ideas or information is welcome.
Thanks,
Rich




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don h

11-16-2003 21:51:37




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 Re: Amp meter reading - Is this right? in reply to Rich - UT, 11-15-2003 16:52:27  
Get a volt meter and measure the voltage at the battery. If it is above 7 volts with it running your generator is working. If it is working some one may have wired the wire from the regulator to the wrong side of the amp meter. Or to the battery cable at the starter. If the current does not go through the amp meter it will not show a charge.
You can get a volt meter for less than $10. It will come in very handy trouble shooting things if you take a little time to learn to use it.

Good luck Don

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Dell (WA)

11-15-2003 19:35:18




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 Re: Amp meter reading - Is this right? in reply to Rich - UT, 11-15-2003 16:52:27  
Rich..... ..traditionally, ammeters read AMPS and voltmeters read volts. (grin)

Ammeters don't care, 6 or 12 volts, positive or negative ground. BUT YOU CARE. Traditionally, ammeters indicate (+) when charging the battery and (-) when discharging the battery. And as a general rule, no matter how many lights, you still want to charge the battery about 1-3 amps when the engine is running. And your Voltage Regulator takes care of that automagically, isn't that amazing?

Heres a simple test for you to make. In the daylight so you can see what your ammeter needle is doing, WITHOUT ENGINE RUNNING, turn on your headlights. If ammeter is doing its thing correctly, it should indicate -5 to -7 AMPS with just headlights ON and ZERO with headlights OFF. If it doesn't indicate, you've got the ammeter wired incorrectly. (we've already established that the ammeter works because you reported -7) If'n it still reports -7 AMPS, its wired correctly. If'n it reports +7 with headlight on and engine OFF, its wired bassackwards.

The most important question to determine the answer to, does your current electrical system keep your battery charged? You might notice, most modern automobiles, don't even have an ammeter any more, just an idiot light. That implies that ammeters don't supply enuff useable information to the hoi-poli..... .....Dell

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Rich -UT

11-15-2003 23:58:27




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 Re: Re: Amp meter reading - Is this right? in reply to Dell (WA), 11-15-2003 19:35:18  
Thanks to all you who straightned me out on the Amps/volts error. I NEVER see a + reading on my ammeter, even immediately after starting the engine. I tried the test you recommended Dell, and with the engine off, turning the headlights ON gives me a ammeter reading of -7, same reading as if the engine is running AND the lights are on. Does this mean that my generator is not working, or the battery is not being charged? I do have to put the charger on my battery 2-3 times per year.
What do you think? What is a simple test to see if my generator is producing a charge?
Thanks for all the input so far.
Rich

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Dell (WA)

11-16-2003 00:18:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Amp meter reading - Is this right? in reply to Rich -UT, 11-15-2003 23:58:27  
Rich..... ...its quite possible that someone has miss-wired your electrical system so it doesn't read the charge going into the battery if'n the gennys is charging. Quite possible that the genny isn't charging ennyways. And in whichcase you'll never see any (+) charge on your ammeter. You do know you can actually run a tractor about 10 hrs on a battery charge and then re-chargitt from the AC mains every now and then.

Me? I'd probably "re-polarize" your 8N'sgenny/VoltageRegulator by arc-sparking the BATT and ARM terminals at the VR. You can polarize as many times as you want without hurting anything as long as the engine is OFF.

Then if'n you don't get a charge to show on your ammeter while yer engine is runnin, then its time to takker into a gennerator shop for a "free" test along with your voltage regulator..... ...Dell

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Rich-UT

11-16-2003 10:09:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Amp meter reading - Is this right? in reply to Dell (WA), 11-16-2003 00:18:14  
Dell,
Thanks for the advice. Can you give me more specific instructions on the arc-sparking the two terminals? This is something I have never done before. Thanks again in advance.
Rich



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Dell (WA)

11-16-2003 18:10:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Amp meter reading - Is this ri in reply to Rich-UT, 11-16-2003 10:09:37  
Rich..... ...lotta guys have accidently arc-sparked their battery terminal (grin)

Closely examine your 8N's squarecan voltage regulator. It should have 4-wires attached somehow. sometimes 4-terminals, sometimes 3-terminals and 4th-wire under a mounting screw. The squarecan cover used to be "stamped" or engraved with terminal labels. BATT, ARM, FLD, GND. (one under the screw is GND) Sometimes the labels are hard to read. Don't matter, you should be able to tell wire sizes, thick and thin. The thick wires are the BATT and ARM wires. They are also usually COLORCODED YELLOW.

To polarize your 8N voltage regulator, you need to "arc-spark" the BATT and ARM terminals with something metal. Since they are SIDE-BY-SIDE, a quick slip of a screwdriver blade will sufficently "arc-spark" everything.

This may NOT solve your missing (+) charge on your ammeter, but it don't cost ennythang..... .....Dell

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Rich -UT

11-16-2003 18:17:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Amp meter reading - Is thi in reply to Dell (WA), 11-16-2003 18:10:31  
Dell,
Yes, I am one of those guys who have accidently arc-sparked my battery.

Does the ignition key need to be in the on position to do this? I know you told me to only do it with the engine off.

I am all for trying the free fix-it first.... Rich



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key off . . . Dell (WA)

11-16-2003 18:47:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Amp meter reading - Is in reply to Rich -UT, 11-16-2003 18:17:28  
Rich..... ..engine and key off..... ...Dell



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duey

11-15-2003 18:46:45




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 Re: Amp meter reading - Is this right? in reply to Rich - UT, 11-15-2003 16:52:27  
About half sounds like the ammeter is reading BACKWARDS. With the engine OFF, and the lights are turned ON, does it then read (+) numbers???

That would be backwards for sure. If so, reverse the connections if you feel better looking at (+) numbers instead of (-).

DOES THE BATTERY STAY CHARGED?? That is the #1 goal here, not how a particular meter reads.... Just My Thoughts..... .... duey

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Jeb2N

11-15-2003 19:27:41




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 Re: Re: Amp meter reading - Is this right? in reply to duey, 11-15-2003 18:46:45  
Well, he said that the meter goes from -1 or -2 to -7 with the lights on. So the discharge is getting bigger with the lights on. That means the meter is hooked up correctly. If the meter was backwards, it would show -15 to -10 with no lights and -3 to -1 with the lights on. I think his meter is working and is hooked up correctly.



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Rich -UT

11-16-2003 00:03:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Amp meter reading - Is this right? in reply to Jeb2N, 11-15-2003 19:27:41  
Jeb, you are right, the discharge gets bigger with the lights on and the engine running. The meter is normally at -1 or -2 with the engine running and lights OFF, and it goes to -7 when I turn the lights on.



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duey

11-15-2003 20:30:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Amp meter reading - Is this right? in reply to Jeb2N, 11-15-2003 19:27:41  
Jeb, The way I read it is the meter deflection was GREATER with the lights OFF. LESS with the lights on when the engine was running.

Now, if the meter showed, say, +7 ,engine running, lights off, and + 1 or 2 with the lights ON, you'd say that's normal. More load, less charge for the battery.

Reverse the wires and it would read backwards, just like he wrote. Dell used alot more words but asked the same thing I did, a) How does it read with the engine off, and b) does the battery stay charged.

I still say, look at the ammeter with a mirror and it'll seem fine. duey

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Ole Henry (Va)

11-15-2003 17:19:35




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 Re: Amp meter reading - Is this right? in reply to Rich - UT, 11-15-2003 16:52:27  
Rich, what you are reading is amps, not volts, and a 7 amp draw with the lights on sounds about right. Notice the meter immediately after cranking, it should read a 5 to 10 amp charge(+) until the battery recharges from the starting. If you are not having trouble with the battery going dead, I don't think you have a problem. However, if there is no positive reading at anytime, your meter may be bad, replace with another and see if it shows a charge. Meters are cheap, < $10 bucks.

John A

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Ole Henry (Va)

11-15-2003 17:19:16




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 Re: Amp meter reading - Is this right? in reply to Rich - UT, 11-15-2003 16:52:27  
Rich, what you are reading is amps, not volts, and a 7 amp draw with the lights on sounds about right. Notice the meter immediately after cranking, it should read a 5 to 10 amp charge(+) until the battery recharges from the starting. If you are not having trouble with the battery going dead, I don't think you have a problem. However, if there is no positive reading at anytime, your meter may be bad, replace with another and see if it shows a charge. Meters are cheap, < $10 bucks.

John A

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twopop

11-15-2003 17:19:03




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 Re: Amp meter reading - Is this right? in reply to Rich - UT, 11-15-2003 16:52:27  
if the original wiring has not been changed,then the ampmeter is wired for positve ground.Is your battery installed neg.or positive ground?



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Rich - UT

11-16-2003 00:00:56




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 Re: Re: Amp meter reading - Is this right? in reply to twopop, 11-15-2003 17:19:03  
Mine is wired for positive ground.



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Ole Henry (Va)

11-15-2003 17:18:38




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 Re: Amp meter reading - Is this right? in reply to Rich - UT, 11-15-2003 16:52:27  
Rich, what you are reading is amps, not volts, and a 7 amp draw with the lights on sounds about right. Notice the meter immediately after cranking, it should read a 5 to 10 amp charge(+) until the battery recharges from the starting. If you are not having trouble with the battery going dead, I don't think you have a problem. However, if there is no positive reading at anytime, your meter may be bad, replace with another and see if it shows a charge. Meters are cheap, < $10 bucks.

John A

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Jeb2N

11-15-2003 17:17:46




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 Re: Amp meter reading - Is this right? in reply to Rich - UT, 11-15-2003 16:52:27  
Yep. Something is not right. If I remember correctly on the 9 and 2N's, the generator should be adjusted via the third brush to charge 1-2 amps even with the lights on. It should read approximately 15 amps charge right after cranking, and then taper off. Since the 8N doesn't have an adjustable third brush, I would venture a guess that the Voltage Regulator is bad. I'm not an electrical engineer, but I try to eliminate as many things as I can. 1-2 volt amp discharge sounds like normal battery drain when not recieving charge. Test the VR and the genny just to be on the safe side.

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Rich - UT

11-15-2003 23:59:37




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 Re: Re: Amp meter reading - Is this right? in reply to Jeb2N, 11-15-2003 17:17:46  
Can you give me instructions on testing the voltage regulator and generator?



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