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8n hydraulic pump blowed gaskets??DELL LOOK

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Archie

12-17-2003 14:56:16




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Has anyone ever had a 8n hyd pump to blow a gasket on one side .Replace the gasket once and new relief value and it worked for about 10 secounds and blowed again in the same place.Took out again though value was stuck but they was not.THANKS Archie




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Richard Fazio

12-18-2003 08:36:40




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 Re: 8n hydraulic pump blowed gaskets??DELL LOOK in reply to Archie, 12-17-2003 14:56:16  
Archie, One other thing I learned that I don't think was metioned here yet. Don't know if you did it or not, but your not supposed to coat the gaskets with anything. Using gasket goo can lubricated the gasket and allow it to blow easier. Mine blew by the lift cover piston. I cleaned it up really well as others have discribed and put a new gasket on dry. It's been fine ever since.



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ZANE

12-18-2003 08:29:19




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 Re: 8n hydraulic pump blowed gaskets??DELL LOOK in reply to Archie, 12-17-2003 14:56:16  
Be sure that there is no old gasket residue on the mating surfaces.

Run a bottom thread tap into all four holes as far as it will go.

Inspect the bolts to assure the threads are not damaged or distorted.

Check the mating surfaces for distortion around the bolt holes in the pump housing especially and lapp as the other's have suggested on a perfectly flat surface with fine wet or dry sand paper.

Oil the bolts with a light oil before torquing. Not too much!

Torque to specs if you don't have a torque wrench in your elbow like I do. :O) I don't know the torque but somebody may be able to tell you???

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torque . . . Dell (WA)

12-18-2003 11:44:59




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 Re: Re: 8n hydraulic pump blowed gaskets??DELL LO in reply to ZANE, 12-18-2003 08:29:19  
My N-Ford Master Parts Catalog lists: 8N hydraulic valve attach bolt, p/n 351085-S8 7/16-20 x 1.25 hex head hardened bolt.

My Boeing Engrs Handbook lists the torque for a 7/16 NF grade 8 bolt as 78 ft/lbs. Most N-Tractor 7/16 bolts are torqued 50 ft/lbs.

I would suspect that equal torque on all 4 attach bolts is desired to prevent the gasket from blowing out..... ..Dell



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So we should..

12-18-2003 18:59:01




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 Re: Re: Re: 8n hydraulic pump blowed gaskets??DELL in reply to torque . . . Dell (WA), 12-18-2003 11:44:59  
torque our bolts to boeing specs?

Just wondering.

Todd



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well . . . Dell (WA)

12-18-2003 21:37:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 8n hydraulic pump blowed gaskets?? in reply to So we should.., 12-18-2003 18:59:01  
Todd..... ...When Boeing decided that to improve shareholders value, they decided they needed to reduce overhead expenses. Engineers are by bookkeeping defination "overhead". Boeing stock was selling about $60/share, 4 years later its now about $40/share, which is up from the $25/share earlier this year.

I was involuntarily retired at 61 yrs, and allowed to keep my personalized engineering manual of FAQ's, stuff I constantly used in my job as an Flight Test Engr. It just happens to have a convienient table of torque values, I quoted it.

Zane asked if'n ennyone knew the torque value that his calibrated elbow tightened the hydraulic pump valve block bolts to. Of course you realize that there are many tables of torque values floating around the web including the one published by Society of Automotive Engineers.

Its also interesting to note that the N-Ford MPC specifically specified "hardened bolt". This was in the days of before grade 8.

You can tighten your bolts to any value you want if'n you think you know better..... ....respectfully, Dell

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ZANE

12-21-2003 08:11:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 8n hydraulic pump blowed gaske in reply to well . . . Dell (WA) , 12-18-2003 21:37:06  
Dell,I once had a general bolt torque book/scale/chart that I used a lot when working on things that did't include torque specifications and usually had good results using this chart. Did have to use a little common sense along with it though when the material was aluminum etc.



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Joe (IN)

12-17-2003 22:52:49




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 Re: 8n hydraulic pump blowed gaskets??DELL LOOK in reply to Archie, 12-17-2003 14:56:16  
Archie, I agree with the possible crack theory. Before you attempt to put it back together again, run the housing and the chamber on the side that's giving you fits into an automtive machine shop. Tell them what kind of problem you're having and ask them to magnaflux both parts to check for cracks and also check the mating surfaces for flatness. It won't cost much and it's a small price to pay anyway given the pain in the backside of tearing it back down again. Something sure sounds wrong here and I'd bet that they could find it.

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don t. - 9n180179

12-18-2003 04:28:55




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 Re: Re: 8n hydraulic pump blowed gaskets??DELL LO in reply to Joe (IN), 12-17-2003 22:52:49  
I think Zane has described a way to check for pump cracks. Maybe im thinking of something else?
Its got something to do with (don't quote me here) a grease zerk, pumping it full of grease, grease comes out of relief valve or the crack. I know specifics on this are in the archives. Sorry, don't recall where/exact verbiage.
HTH...don t. ...



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JimNC

12-17-2003 16:02:24




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 Re: 8n hydraulic pump blowed gaskets??DELL LOOK in reply to Archie, 12-17-2003 14:56:16  
Archie,
While replacing the relief valve and changing the old gasket did you happen to clean the chamber good? The gaskets are the weak link. There is also the possibility that there is a crack in the chamber at that spot, or may have been damaged when the gasket blew the first time. Check the flatness of the mating surfaces.


Jim



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Hobo,NC

12-17-2003 17:34:38




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 Re: Re: 8n hydraulic pump blowed gaskets??DELL LO in reply to JimNC, 12-17-2003 16:02:24  
find ya a flat piece of flat window glass and lay a sheet of sand paper on it and resurface the face of the chamber. If its warped it will show. Could also spray a mist coat of paint on the chamber sealing surface. if any paint remains after you work on it some its warped. As for the hydraulic houseing will have to think on that



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Jeb2N

12-17-2003 16:15:43




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 Re: Re: 8n hydraulic pump blowed gaskets??DELL LO in reply to JimNC, 12-17-2003 16:02:24  
Hey Jim;

I'm in a predicament on my pump, as well. I took the pump base out and let it sit in Var-Sol for a day or so. Took it out and parts of the surface that the chambers mate to is ERODED. There were bits of gasket material left on there and underneath them was smooth metal, but not much. I was thinking about possibly JB welding that side (only one side is eroded) to fill in voids, or possibly hand filing that side until it is flat. There should be some clearance between the top of the valve and the bottom of the chamber, but is there enough to accomodate filing? Thanks.

Jeb2N

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JimNC

12-17-2003 17:40:15




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 Re: Re: Re: 8n hydraulic pump blowed gaskets??DELL in reply to Jeb2N, 12-17-2003 16:15:43  
Jeb my boy,

I think if you look around for that same thick black fiber gasket material and make the gaskets that little bit of pitting will be of no consequence(sp).

Jim



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Hobo,NC

12-17-2003 16:55:30




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 Re: Re: Re: 8n hydraulic pump blowed gaskets??DELL in reply to Jeb2N, 12-17-2003 16:15:43  
remember the valve chambers fit on the outside of the PTO support when its installed in the tractor. If'in ya takes some off the chamber ya will need to also take some off the ears of the pto support



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sorry . . . Dell (WA)

12-17-2003 15:47:04




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 Re: 8n hydraulic pump blowed gaskets??DELL LOOK in reply to Archie, 12-17-2003 14:56:16  
Archie..... ..sorry, I don't have a clue..... .Dell



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