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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Will not keep running?

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Reba

01-06-2004 09:02:17




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8n fires runs for about 30 sec dies out like its not getting fuel. We changed the float bowl because it was leaking bad feul is gettingto the carbrator but it dont seem to be leaving it fast enough to keep tractor running.. let it sit an hour and it will fire up again then dies out.. took the carborator off and found that the casket was shot made a new one still haveing the same problem.. Help the snow is falling the old girl is needed.. Thank You

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Reba

01-06-2004 17:16:45




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 Re: Will not keep running? in reply to Reba, 01-06-2004 09:02:17  
Let me be more clear the sediment bowl stays full.
and some times it takes a few hours be for it will start again.. Do they have like a ballast resistor like a car?



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Dell (WA)

01-06-2004 18:30:38




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 Re: Re: Will not keep running? in reply to Reba, 01-06-2004 17:16:45  
Reba..... ...I was going to remind you that I flunked mindreading because you neglected to provide more specific information about your tractor's electrical system. Like is it a squarecan 4-nipple frontmount distributor or a 5-nipple roundcan ignition coil?...or...is your tractors electrical system the OEM 6 volts or converted to 12 volts? but Jim Patton doesn't like me to insult N-Board questioneers. So now I am going to amaze you with my amazing powers of deduction based upon your comment about a ballast resistor.

Lets see, sometimes it starts and runs for about a minute and quits, then it'll start again after about an hour of cooling off or sometimes it take all nite before it will re-start and? run for about a minute (again?). The LONG time before restart is generally indicative of BAD IGNITION COIL. And yes, short time running could also be indicative of really BAD IGNITION COIL.

Unfortunately, there are some well meaning but ill-informed shadetree mechanics that physically by-pass the "infamous ballast resistor" mounted on the backside of the dashpanel under the ammeter in the miss-guided attemt to get hotter sparkies for eazier starting.

Well yeah, you'll get hotter sparkies for about 1 hour the first time before the insulative tar melts and shorts out the internal coil wire and then the sparkies quit....until the tar hardens overnite. And guess what? It'll start up again thus proving that the shadetree fixx of hotter sparkies works (for a while).

So based upon what information you have shared, I'd guess that you have a BAD IGNITION COIL..... ..respectfully, Dell the mindreader
(grin)

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uh . . . Dell (WA)

01-07-2004 00:49:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Will not keep running? in reply to Dell (WA), 01-06-2004 18:30:38  
Reba..... ...I'm sorry, after re-reading my response, I now realize that it was a rude response to your question. I hope I haven't offend you as much as I will have seriously offended the politically correct answer checkers who will miss-read my honest effort to answer your question why you can't get your tractor to run. Again, I sincerely apologze for offending anyone..... ...respectfully, the apologetic Dell

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Reba

01-07-2004 17:18:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Will not keep running? in reply to uh . . . Dell (WA), 01-07-2004 00:49:38  
Dell no offense taken. After talking more to my husband.The tractor seems to have a good fuel supply to the float bowl of carb. However the correct jet settings are in question(turns out). The tractor ran fine when parked 2 months ago. Now after rebuilding the carb because of refusing to run,installing new spark plugs and plug wires it still does this; runs for 3 or 4 seconds then quits(maybe as he takes his finger off start button, hard to tell). 5 or 6 hours later it may or may not start again, but usually the next day it does the same thing again.Not running for more than 3 or 4 seconds. Checking the spark with a spark plug layed on the outside of the block the plug seems to fire but engine still wont run. Then start smelling fuel like it is flooded. He wants to know if this has a ballast resistor that could be replaced if bad not "hot wired". If it doesn't than he is lost as to what it may be. It has standard 6 volt system with front mounted 4 hole distributor. But someone has ran a different wire than stock to the coil at sometime.( my dad has had this tractor for about 16 years) The wire goes up under the dashboard someplace thats all can see. Again no offense taken before, hopefully this helps clear up my problem.

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Dell (WA)

01-07-2004 19:49:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Will not keep running? in reply to Reba, 01-07-2004 17:18:11  
Reba..... ....there are 2 interchangeable jets in your M/S carb. The idle jet is 0.024 dia and the main jet is #49 drill (0.074 dia). Take a 1/16" (0.0625) drill bitt and use it a gauge. It'll go into the main jet, and won't go into the idle jet, pretty simple eh?

ONLY the squarecan frontmount 4-nipple distributor requires the mandantory "infamous ballast resistor". The 5-nipple roundcan coil, no resistor, ok? Ballast resistors are like lightbulbs, when they go "bad" you don't get any sparkle.

As I originally said, 5-15 seconds of run time is generally a bad condensor. BUT the 4-6 hours of "cool-off" time is indicative of a bad frontmount ignition coil that has been "COOKED" by overheating it with a by-passed ballast resistor. Your extra wire is almost a sure guarentee of a by-passed ballast resistor.

Remember, the infamous ballast resistor is mounted on the dashpanel under the ammeter. It usually looks like a "spring" in a ceramic mounting block. Sometime white, sometimes black, ?quen sabe?

The ballast resistor is mounted on a 3-terminal junctionblock. The center terminal comes from the battery somewere. Then one of your igntion switch wires connects to the same center terminal. The other ignition switch wire is supposed to connect to oneside of the ballast resistor terminal. The electricity then goes THRU the ballast resistor and out the otherside of the ballast resistor. The 1-terminal ignition coil wire is supposed to connect to it. If'n the 'lectrons don't go thru the ballast resistor to the coil, yer gonna burn out your squarecan 6 volt ignition coil. (and probably have)

Unfortunately the OEM 6 volt squarecan ignition coil is NOT ROBUST as we'd like'm to be.

Anytime someone tells me they replaced their sparkie wires, a WARNING goes off. Remember, the 4-nipple crabcap firing order is 1,2,4,3 CCW.....that means:
sparkie #1 is connected to nipple #1 at 10 o'clock
sparkie #2 is connected to nipple #2 at 7 o'clock
now pay attention.....it gets tricky here
sparkie #4 is connected to nipple #3 at 4 o'clock
sparkie #3 is connected to nipple #4 at 2 o'clock
vola', firing order 1,2,4,3 CCW, isn't that amazing?

The amazing thing about these ol'N-Engines are soooo good, that they will run (eventually) mis-wired with only 2 cylinders sparkling. Hint: its usually the #3&4 sparkie wires that get crossed up.

One other "obscure" short-runtime possiblity. Water in the gas. Take and drain a bunch of gas outta the carb drainplug into a glass mason canning jar and lettitt settle. I once drained 4 quart jars of cloudy gasoline outta my N-tractor. It took all day for water sepparate outta the gasoline. Smelled like gasoline, would even start but wouldn't run very long before stalling out.

Don't gitt overwhelmed, the N-Tractor was designed for Model-T horsefarmers, you can operate a computer (grin)..... ...Dell

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Russ in SoCal

01-07-2004 20:58:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Will not keep running? in reply to Dell (WA), 01-07-2004 19:49:26  
Then for people like me who do better at "pitchers" than words.....



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Dell (WA)

01-06-2004 14:25:43




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 Re: Will not keep running? in reply to Reba, 01-06-2004 09:02:17  
Reba..... ...there are 4 common runtime issues with N-Engines.
1) runs for about 60 minutes and quits, restarts next day, BAD ignition coil, snottchur complaint
2) runs for about 15 mins and quits, restarts innna bout 1 hr, Gunked up ignition switch
snottchur complaint
3) runs for about 3 mins and quits, restarts innna bout 15 mins, Clogged gas filters, check yer glass bowl filter and yer carb elbow filter (theres 3, but 2 most common)
snottchur complaint
4) runs for about 1 minute and quits, restarts innna bout 30 minutes
Sound like yer complaint? its BAD CONDENSER in ignition distributor

If'n ya gottsa square frontmount distributor, ittsa 2-bolt undoo, 15 minute job on kitchen table to replace the condensor and check/replace the ignition points. (gap = 0.015") Generally, you just buy BOTH the points and condensor innna "kit". The frontmount distributor is driven by "off-set tang" and unless you use big hammer, you can't re-install it outta time. Just start both 5/16 bolts by finger and rotate the distributor rotor until everything slipps together, then tighten the 1/2" hex bolts. Snap the distributor cap inplace, snapp the square coil inplace and you should be good to go.

And NO, you don't haffta unplug the sparkie wires from the 4-terminal flatcap to remove the distributor, just unclippie and push cap aside. BTW, the firing order is 1,2,4,3 CCW..... ....Dell

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pat

01-06-2004 11:52:47




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 Re: Will not keep running? in reply to Reba, 01-06-2004 09:02:17  
another easy check you may want to make is that the sediment bowl is full of gas, and not have a little airlock, loosen the bowl secure nut until gas runs out the side of the bowl,, this could be why it runs until the carb is out,, some of the sediment bowls have a screw on the back to bleed them, but I find it just as easy to undo the seal on the bowl, then tighten up, good luck,pat



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Upper Peninsula, Mich

01-06-2004 09:30:20




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 Re: Will not keep running? in reply to Reba, 01-06-2004 09:02:17  
Hi Reba. Did you take the drain out of the bottom of the Carb and drain gas out and does it have a strong flow.Use a can to collect the gas and let it run for at least the time that the tractor runs before it shuts off. If the gas flow stops then you can be sure of dirty gas filters. You could have some gas filters plugged up stream from the carb. You probably have 3. First one is between the elbo and carb inside the carb fitting, the second is just above the bowl, take the bowl off to clean it and the third is in the tank just above the bowl. However, you just may have a electrical problem. If it doesn't start until after one hour after it shuts down, that indicates a bad coil.Generaly you have to run the tractor for at least 1/2 hour to heat the coil up before it fails. If the cool down is a shorter period of time like 10-15 minutes then it could be a bad ignition switch. Running only 30 seconds before it shuts off is an indication of a bad switch. Check it first. You can test it by taking a wire and jumping around the ignition switch. Many of us use a wire with aligator clips on each end to jump around the switch. If none of the aforementioned work then replace your condenser. I'm sure you will be receiving additional recommendations. Good luck. Ron

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souNdguy

01-06-2004 09:29:36




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 Re: Will not keep running? in reply to Reba, 01-06-2004 09:02:17  
Too see if the carb is starving after initial bowl runs dry,remove the plug a tthe bottom.. should be a steady continous stream there..

Soundguy



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Bruce (VA)

01-06-2004 09:19:15




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 Re: Will not keep running? in reply to Reba, 01-06-2004 09:02:17  
Sounds to me that it's starting with the fuel in the bowl, running that dry, then cutting off. So, remove the brass elbow from the carb, turn the fuel on, and see what happens. You should get a nice steady stream of gas. If so, look carefully at the filter screen on the elbow, because if you are getting gas that far, the filter in the elbow may be clogged. If you do not have a good steady stream of gas, work your way up-stream to the filter in the top of the sediment bowl. There is one more filter in the tank, but that's not likely the problem. If you have a good gas flow at all of these points, your problem may be in the carb. Did you mean to say you changed the float when you said "changed the float bowl"? The problem is usually with crude on the needle valve or seat.

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Steve(OR)

01-06-2004 09:12:28




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 Re: Will not keep running? in reply to Reba, 01-06-2004 09:02:17  
Same thing happened to me the other night. Then I remembered to check the fuel level. It was low so I opened the valve all the way to get at the 1 gallon reserve. Sometimes its the simple things.



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