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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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OT...F250 fuel milage

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Philip

01-08-2004 04:01:18




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I plan to purchase a 2004 Ford F250 in the near future. My main concern is fuel mileage of the truck. The truck will be a crew cab, four wheel drive, automatic transmission, 5.4 V-8 gasoline engine, and 3.73 axle. I only tow 6000 pounds less than 250 miles a year in mostly flat Indiana, so larger engines and higher axle ratios do not seem required for this less than occasional task. The $4,700 adder for a diesel engine barley pays off in fuel mileage and resale value after my expected use of 150,000 miles over 8 years, so as much as I would like to have a diesel, it does not make sense financially. If any of you have similar vehicles, I would like to know what highway mileage you are getting with no load in bed and no trailer attached. Also, how is your truck equipped; as in F150 or F250 / cab style / engine / axle / 4x2 or 4x4 / automatic or manual transmission. Thank you for your help. Philip.

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Charlie in TX

01-08-2004 10:32:19




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 Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Philip, 01-08-2004 04:01:18  
I suggest you reconsider the deisel.

A '99 F250 CC 4x4 5.4l 150,000 mls at kelly blue book (www.kbb.com) shows a retail of $12k. The same truck with a deisel shows $17k. The difference in the original price of the 2 was less than the current $4700 but is worth the current difference. In 5 years when you go to get rid of the truck, you will get the $6500 (geusstemate) difference between the 2 in 2009.

Let's consider fuel. In 150,000 miles the 5.4 will burn about 10,000 gallons of fuel (giving it a liberal 15mpg), the deisel will burn 7800 (giving it a consevative 19mpg). If gas and deisel cost the same (deisel cost less half the year and more half the year) at $1.50 you have saved $3300 on fuel.

So for your $4700 'investment' you have more power and $5100 more in your pocket when you sell it in 5 yrs. If you keep it longer than 5 years or more than 150,000 mls the difference will get bigger.

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Philip

01-09-2004 05:00:27




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 Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Charlie in TX, 01-08-2004 10:32:19  
Charlie, Thank you for you input and leading the diesel camp. I would love to have a diesel, but does not work for me. I have done the same rationalazion as you have, but you missed a few details. Invoice for F250XL gas is 28757, same truck diesel 33407. Initial cost is 4650 more on diesel. Sales tax is 232 more on diesel. Finance is 1022 more on diesel. Fuel savings is 3750 less with diesel. Nobody buys retail for a used truck. If you know them, send them my way, I have a Ranger for sale. KBB private party value for a 8 year old 150000 mile F250 gas is 6145, diesel is 9505. Resale is 3360 more for diesel. Add all of that up and at 8 years 150000 miles, if everything goes right, the diesel will have saved me $1206! What this does not tell you is how it will bankrupt me. Payments for 4 years on the gas will be 667 a month, the diesel will be 790 a month. You will have a fuel savings with the diesel of 39 month to help offset this, for an adjusted payment of 751 a month. Monthly payments for is diesel is $84 more. I hope payments are not this high for either, as I plan to put down cash/trade in value of 5600. Sorry for the length, but this is complicated information best left to a spread sheet. Not trying to flame here, just provide details. Thank you very much for your input, and keeping the diesel camp alive. I would love to have one, maybe next time! Philip.

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what he said.......swavo

01-08-2004 12:46:56




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 Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Charlie in TX, 01-08-2004 10:32:19  
plus at 150k mile the diesel is just broken in.
power, economy, longevity, less depreciation now do the math!
mike, owner of a 99 f-250 x-cab, 4wd,powerstroke with 140k and averages 19mpg.



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Philip

01-09-2004 05:02:50




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 Re: Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to what he said.......swavo, 01-08-2004 12:46:56  
Mike, I am glad you are satisfied with you 7.3 PSD. I live in Indy where that engine is made. You may want to read my reply to Charlie.



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mr. lawicki

01-08-2004 09:51:08




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 Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Philip, 01-08-2004 04:01:18  
9 miles to the gallon max



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Dbrown

01-08-2004 06:21:07




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 Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Philip, 01-08-2004 04:01:18  
I have '02 XLT w/V10,3:73 limited slip,Ext. Cab,long bed, from May 02 until now w/just under 19000 miles that I pull 30 ft fifth wheel 7,000+ camper trailer with. Towing I get 10 mpg on interstate doing speed limit. Bare truck I got a flat 16.0 about two months ago going to S.Ga from Atlanta doing speed limit + 5 mph.Around town I get 12mpg usually. The 5.4 sounds like a good size for you, but I would think about the 4:10, and the difference in mpg would be minor.

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Philip

01-09-2004 04:36:57




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 Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Dbrown, 01-08-2004 06:21:07  
Dbrown, Thank you for your friendly input. I have been thinking about the 3.73 versus 4.10 for some time. It is only a 10% increase in RPM. I will have to test drive both. Philip.



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Hobo,NC

01-08-2004 08:30:09




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 Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Dbrown, 01-08-2004 06:21:07  
Them V10 engines will scoot but they do like to drink. V8 and diesel engines in ford trucks, do you guys know ya have to remove the cab from the frame to do head work or R&R engine. look at www.flatratetech.com



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week N warrior / MO

01-08-2004 17:39:40




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 Re: Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Hobo,NC, 01-08-2004 08:30:09  
Man, what an engine. I didn't know they made such a monster.
Guess I'll just stick to my '78, F-250, extended cab, 4WD & Utility bed.
Got it fixed just the way I like it & can work on any thing on it (and have at one point or another)
Gets 11 mpg Hwy unloaded or 9 mpg Hauling 12000# trailer. Works for me.
It's paid for:)
Carl



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Hobo,NC

01-09-2004 04:18:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to week N warrior / MO, 01-08-2004 17:39:40  
My 77 f-350 400 4speed with 4.10 gets 12mpg unloaded and 10 to 11 loaded. Paid 6300 fer it in 79, at that time I did not think I would ever be able to pay it off. after 25 years 6300 would not buy it from me. one day when i find a 460 with a five speed that old 77 will become a real man. I added a tow truck body and wheel lift to it in 81, it makes about 6k a year towing only the cars and tractors I work on.

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Hobo,NC

01-08-2004 08:24:19




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 Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Dbrown, 01-08-2004 06:21:07  
Them V10 engines will scoot but they do like to drink. V8 and diesel engines in ford trucks, do you guys know ya have to remove the cab from the frame to do head work or R&R engine. look at www.flatratetech.com



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Jhill

01-08-2004 06:12:07




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 Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Philip, 01-08-2004 04:01:18  
I have a 2001 F-250 4wd, 5.4 extended cab. New I got 12 mpg. I changed to a K+N air filter at 10,000 and the mileage increased to 15 mpg. I tow a 10,000 lb trailer occasionally with no problems. I have 40,000 miles on it now and I only have 2 complaints. The seats are as hard as a board and when you open the door in the morning in the winter snow falls on the seat.

The engines in my last 3 Ford pickups all had more than 150,000 miles on them with no engine work when I got rid of them so I don't see a diesel as having an advantage there. The only reason I would by a diesel is if I were pulling a big trailor regularly.

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Philip

01-09-2004 04:34:53




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 Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Jhill, 01-08-2004 06:12:07  
Jhill, Very good information here. I am glad to hear you are happy with the power of the 5.4 in a heavy truck. Looks like a K&N is a must. Thank you for your input. Philip.



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Colin in WI

01-08-2004 05:55:29




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 Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Philip, 01-08-2004 04:01:18  
I have an '03 Excursion with the new 6.0L diesel engine. It has 22,000 miles on it and has averaged just a hair under 18 mpg overall. I did the same calculation you're doing now to see if it would pay for itself and was satisfied that it would. Ford's 5.4L and 5.7L engines don't come close to that kind of mileage. Diesel typically runs 3 to 4 cents per gallon less around here although it's the same right now as regular gas. When I combine the mileage differential and the fuel price differential I get a little over the $4K cost difference. In my case the lower fuel costs combined with the lower maintenance costs combined with the potential to keep the vehicle past 150K miles easily justified the additional cost. Good luck with whatever you do. You'll be happy with the F250.

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Philip

01-09-2004 04:33:00




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 Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Colin in WI, 01-08-2004 05:55:29  
Colin, thanks for the friendly input. Philip.



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Geo in SD

01-08-2004 05:41:55




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 Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Philip, 01-08-2004 04:01:18  
I own a 150 with the 4.6 triton engine. It gives me 18 to 19.5 mpg all the time on the highway, depending on wind. This is interstate driving. It does a little better on a two lane road. Best I got was 22 mpg with no load and 18 mpg with a 1500# load. This truck has a ext. cab and auto trans.



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Philip

01-09-2004 04:32:02




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 Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Geo in SD, 01-08-2004 05:41:55  
Geo, Great mileage! Thanks for the input. Philip.



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souNdguy

01-08-2004 05:11:36




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 Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Philip, 01-08-2004 04:01:18  
I've got a 98 dodge ram 1500, 5.9 v8 gas job. 4x4 automatic. Has gooseneck and receiver hitch. Gas tank holds 34-36 gallons. I get about 350 miles out of a tank.. loaded or unload it seems. The bulk of my driving is city, stop and go..bad fuel mileage teritory. Though I get much better milage on highway. When i do pull, I pull a 16' tandem axle trailer with electric brakes, and generally my NH 1920 with 5' mower down the road to mow some property. Pulls great... plenty of power.. just slightly longer acceleration times.

I also have a 2000 gmc Yukon XL with the 5.3 v8 4x4, auto. It has a slightly longer wheel base.. seems to ride Better when pulling. I've also used this to pull my rig. It gets a bit better mileage than my ram. Also seems to get better milage unloaded than loaded.. ( If it weren't for some real weird electrical problems we had with it last year.. I would really like the truck - computer went out, abs control module went out, and fuel sensor / pump went out.. all at once.. while going down the road.. vehicle died and came to a stop... had to be towed... was dead as a door nail. Dealer took an even 30 days to get it diagnosed, parts ordered, installed, computer reprogrammed... bill was 2100$!!! Luckilly extended warranty coverd about 2/3'rds of it. Needless to say.. I'm not looking to run out and buy another gmc product... )

Soundguy

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Philip

01-09-2004 04:31:17




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 Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to souNdguy, 01-08-2004 05:11:36  
SouNdguy, Thanks for your input. Sorry to hear about your misfortunes with the GMC service department. My local Ford dealership cost me a new engine when they replaced a front cover gasket on my 40000 mile engine. They dropped debris in the oil pan which scored all of the bearings, which lost pressure. Now I drive the unconvient extra mile to get service elsewhere. Someday, after management changes, I will go back. Philip.

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Mike

01-09-2004 01:52:49




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 Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to souNdguy, 01-08-2004 05:11:36  
Soundguy,

You've hit the problem with dealerships on the head, except this problem isn't limited to GM.

You find most dealerships, and I personally know this problem has existed for over 40 years, hire the most inexperienced "techs" they can because they can pay them the least amount. Every bonehead who has changed his own oil thinks he is a mechanic and presents himself as such to the local dealership when he tries to get a job. He, of course knows that he doesn't know a hill of beans about fixing real problems so he is willing to work for next to nothing just to get hired.

I know this problem continues as my wife is the sales manager at a Ford dealership, and I get to observe the hiring practices her boss uses when hiring someone "for the back" of the store. I don't think he actually ever considers the skills of the person he's hiring, only how much he has to pay the "techie".

And it doesn't matter if you're a first time customer or running the store, incompetence treats all customers the same, the screw things up time after time after time and expect the customer to pay the price. Which of course, if you want to drive, you (and I) are going to have to pay for their incompetence.

If you're lucky you find a store with a decent mechanic in the back, and insist he alone works on your vehicle. If you don't get lucky there, you might as well find another store to do business as THEY WON'T CHANGE. Usually it'll be the service manager covering the incompetent's damages.

Good luck.(From an old, disgusted mechanic)

Mike

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FC

01-08-2004 06:30:34




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 Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to souNdguy, 01-08-2004 05:11:36  
Reading your dilemna with the Yukon makes me wonder about the mechanic (or tech) working on it. I am not saying all those things could not go bad at once, as it is possible, but it seems highly unlikely. Reminds me of a situation I had with a truck a few years ago. I had a bad ECM, and had "stabbed" at it by replacing part after part myself. I had came to the conclusion the ECM was bad, but decided to have a dealer check it out before throwing out the $$ to change it out myself and maybe wasting more $$. They tried to tell me a part I had already replaced was bad and wanted to change it out. This would not only have cost me that part (again) along with labor, but eventually after replacing who knows how many other parts an ECM. I took the truck, went to a local parts store, purchased a rebuilt ECM and replaced it myself. Problem solved (without the part they claimed bad). It still cost me some labor for nothing. Just makes me wonder if only one of the parts was bad and they started throwing parts at it until it worked. It also should not have taken a good tech 30 days to diagnose and repair short of a total rebuild. I do understand your frustration.

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souNdguy

01-08-2004 07:43:31




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 Re: Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to FC, 01-08-2004 06:30:34  
This is the story how it was told to me. Believe me.. I went down there often and gave them the furrowed brow too.. Trying to make sure nothing was slipping by me.

First. ECM went bad, in conjunction with somenting in the fuel system.. either pump or sensor.. a hard short somewhere.. they had to replace a wireing harness, and the ecm, and the fuel components. That was originally all they thought it was... ECM wasn't too bad something like 250 bucks...

They had to order the ecm.... After they got the ecm in and programmed ( guess they come from the factory blank? ).. The ECM then identified the bad abs component... that was the single most expensive part.. something like 900 bucks.. Thought the dealer said the vehicle would 'drive' without it... That wasn't in stock either... had to be ordered... and then installed... all together from tow in on the weekend, to pick up.. was as far as I know.. 30 days..

Here's the kicker Literally a few days later, I get a call from them and they tell me that my On-Star has a recal on it... I come in.. and sure enough... they have to order parts, and Ii have to bring it back yet again another day within 1 week as onstar won't let them hold on to the parts for more than that time..

Another kicker... This was an extended warranty plan that was purchased with the vehicle from the dealer, when new, not a factory warranty issue.. So I had to file the paperwork myself to get re-imbursed. The repair detail shhet was long.. actually took up two sheets. When i sent those two sheets in, they tried to treat them like two seperate repair incidents, and tried to make me pay the deductable TWICE! A round of phone calls.. some faxes from the dealer, and a letter from me got that cleared up.. but it still took them another month to get me the 'covered' portion of the repair back... needless to say.. left a wonderfull taste in my mouth. I can find parts for 50 and 60 year old tractors out of production.. make a phone call and get the parts here next day... and the dealer has to take a month to get me parts for a current production line vehicle ?!? .. just venting... I get a little bent out of shape when i think about it... Just little things.. like the fuel pump was covered under some epa warranty issue.. fuel sensor wasn't.. ecm and brake parts were covered under extended warranty.. but not the labor to install them? .. just stuff like that... little issues.


Soundguy

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FC

01-08-2004 12:04:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to souNdguy, 01-08-2004 07:43:31  
I certainly understand your frustration. This is not the first such story I have seen or heard of this type. The sad thing is they pretty much have us by the proverbial "short hairs" with these high tech vehicles now. Another scenario which I will bet happens more frequently than we know is parts damaged by the tech. My son had a nearly new truck in for body work at a local dealer, and they had to remove the bed. They were supposed to have it fixed in a week. I called to see if it was finished, and they told me it was setting waiting for SERVICE (of which they failed to call and tell me about). I about threw a fit and asked why. They replied the fuel pump had gone out and they could not get it to run to pull it into the body shop to put the bed back on. It took an extra WEEK and when I picked it up I asked if they had to replace the pump and he said they found a wire to the pump was cut (it took a week to figure this out). Since it ran into the dealership you can guess who cut the wire taking the bed off. To make matters even worse one side of the rear lights were not working when we went to leave. I fortunately saw this as my wife was driving it off and stopped her. They were getting ready to close, but I demanded they fix on the spot no matter how long it took. The problem was a damaged plug where lights harness plugs into main harness. Carelessness again on their part. I announced to everyone in their showroom how displeased I was with their service and that I would not do business there again while waiting for the lights to be fixed. I have made good on my promise so far, although that has meant driving several miles to get vehicles serviced a few times. I don't think these situations are unique to GM either as I have heard similar stories about Ford, Chrysler, and yes the "off shore" brands too. I will never drive a Honda after an experience with them. Your problem would have probably cost double that if it would have been a Honda.

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souNdguy

01-08-2004 12:50:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to FC, 01-08-2004 12:04:30  
Talk about things getting complicated.. I hear some of the newer GM spec'd alternators don't have the 'standard' hookups.. but actually have a plug on them and interact in some way with the ECM... I guess in a few years the easy days of hanging an alternator on a machine to convert it to 12v will be gone...

Soundguy



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The Yank

01-08-2004 15:28:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to souNdguy, 01-08-2004 12:50:19  
Guess what's coming. In Europe they're starting to put in 36V systems. They have a large coil mounted between engine and tranny. Acts as a starter to start and an alternator when running. Can you imagine fixing that bugger? Volkswagens are using electric steering. Hydraulics are gone. Europe is usually a few years ahead of the US on this stuff. US makers won't be far behind!!



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Bob

01-08-2004 14:30:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to souNdguy, 01-08-2004 12:50:19  
10 or 15 years ago, Chrysler already had alternators with the voltage regulator built into the engine computer!!!



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Bob

01-08-2004 08:28:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to souNdguy, 01-08-2004 07:43:31  
I think someone took your Yukon for a trip through the parts department at your expense!

They have to support the massive overhead at today's dealerships somehow!

(At least I hope so! SWMBO has a 2002 Yukon with the 5.3, and I sure hope nothing like that happens to her (me)!



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Jeff-Oh

01-08-2004 05:06:28




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 Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Philip, 01-08-2004 04:01:18  
Philip, I got a F150 3.55 non-slip axle auto last year and I bounce around 18 MPG. (SW OH and SE IN area)

Did you check out forddirect.com at that web site you can search local dealer inventories, look at the actual sticker prices (good to hone in on thoes extras that they tag on... i.e. radios etc.) Also DO NOT LET THEM CHARGE YOU FOR WINDOW SECURITY ETCHING. can be upward to $200+ they say it helps theft. however there is no proof it does anything. Also it only cost them about $20.00 to do and that is all labor. When I bought this charge was thrown on top after a price was agreed. They recended before I got half way out of my chair.

Also ask about internet use bonuses. After I bought I finally got an e-mail from the dealer I purchased the truck from that FORD offered a $300 internet incentative to customers who used it to buy the vehicle. Of coures after I baught that was unavailable to me.

Also find out what the x-plan pricing is you should be able to at least get that amount.

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Philip

01-09-2004 03:59:56




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 Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Jeff-Oh, 01-08-2004 05:06:28  
Jeff, Thanks for the input. I allready have X-plan, but I will check out forddirect.com and look for extra internet rebates. Philip.



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Pete

02-08-2004 13:52:48




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 Re: Re: Re: OT...F250 fuel milage in reply to Philip, 01-09-2004 03:59:56  
I don't want to beat a dead horse about the merits of a gas vs diesel but I would like to get more feedback on the milage people are getting from both the 6.0l, 5.4 and 6.7. Like the guy that started this thread, I'm still wavering about whether to get the 5.4/6.7 or the diesel in a new F250 4x4. My thoughts for a diesel are mostly for longevity as I plan to keep this truck at least 10 years and project at least 250,000 miles. I drove one today (6.0l) and was very impressed with the power and low noise. At 65 it was no different than the gas engine. Acceleration was relatively smooth too. I do little towing so most of the miles will be city/highway but after 2 engines, one lower-end rebuild and one transmission on my 88 gmc ext cab, I want to limit maintenence. I will say that the gmc now has 350k so even with the engines and tranny I got plenty of work from this old truck. I've heard mixed stories about the 6.0... from it still having bugs to poor or inconsistant milage so hopefully theres a few of you out here that have some feed back on this diesel, for which I would be very gratefull.

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