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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Hydraulics Going Knock-Knock

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Phil B. (SoCal)

02-01-2004 00:29:09




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Hi all - I've spent a fair amount of time reading through the archives to try and diagnose my knocking hydraulics that sound up when I stand on the draw bar and lift the hyd. What I think I recall from the posts was that it is a worn shaft. I think someone said you could remove, turn the shaft and reinstall. I also read someone who said they used their tractor for 26 yrs. with this knocking. I'm in the middle of brakes, bearings, building a front loader and soon to tackle the engine. I'm very interested in phasing the hyd. project for the future, if possible. Hyd. lifts fine and will bleed down overnight (no weight).

So, my questions are 1) what is this worn shaft called; and 2) should I just continue to run my rear blade until the lift stops working?


Thanks for any insight!

Phil B.

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TomP

02-01-2004 12:47:37




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 Re: Hydraulics Going Knock-Knock in reply to Phil B. (SoCal), 02-01-2004 00:29:09  
"when I stand on the draw bar and lift the hyd."
This does not sound like a safe practice to me.
Probably better to check it with just the rear blade on and if it doesn't make the noise with just that then don't worry about it.



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Jeb2N

02-01-2004 05:54:48




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 Re: Hydraulics Going Knock-Knock in reply to Phil B. (SoCal), 02-01-2004 00:29:09  
The lift pump is an interesting little machine. The PTO shaft makes it turn, so if you disengage the PTO, you gots no lift. The pump uses pistons to pump the fluid to the lift, sorta like an air compressor. The only difference is, there are 4 of them pistons! There are two blocks (front and back) and each block has two pistons on it, one on each side like a horizontally opposed 4 cylinder engine if you know what i'm talking about. The blocks with the pistons are cast iron.

There is a cam that slides over the PTO shaft to make the piston blocks go back and forth and pump. It is brass, i beleive. The cam doesn't directly contact the piston blocks, though. There is a second brass block that fits inside the piston block and that is turned by the cam. Since brass is relatively soft, it will wear down faster than the cast iron piston blocks. When the sides of the brass block get worn out, they smack back and forth inside the cast iron block sorta like piston knock. That is the knock you are hearing.

You can get a rebuild kit for the hydraulics ($280) or you may be able to get just the parts you need separately. The rebuild kit comes with new piston blocks that you may or may not need. It does NOT come with a new piston cylinder for the lift or piston itself. We recommend that you go ahead and replace the piston in the lift cover to the NAA style with rubber o-ring and leather back up washer for about $27 total. Again, not sure if you can get the cam blocks separately or if you have to get the kit. Go ahead and get a new exhaust/relief valve while you're in there.

Now you know what causes that knocking. If you have an F0-4 manual, look for the exploded view of the pump and you will see the blocks i'm talking about.

Jeb

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Phil B.

02-01-2004 10:53:37




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 Re: Re: Hydraulics Going Knock-Knock in reply to Jeb2N, 02-01-2004 05:54:48  
Thanks Jeb, DJ, Craig! Great information. I'll finish the jobs at hand then tackle the hydraulics. Be certain that I'll be back with more questions.


Phil B.



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DJ in P.A.

02-01-2004 03:43:03




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 Re: Hydraulics Going Knock-Knock in reply to Phil B. (SoCal), 02-01-2004 00:29:09  
If you are going to do all the other work this one is easy, I suggest you do it first.I had same situation. 1.Pull side cover,and drain oil through big plug on bottom,this will give you a good view of everything. 2.unhook the lift control from the valve T in back of pump.(the arms are springy,it will pop out easy, I used a screw driver to pop them back in) now pull top plate and cylinder. 3.If cylinder is scored or in any way in doubt either have a hydraulic shop rebuild it,or get cylinder,piston and RUBBER rings (naa style) from your ford dealer. Also get check valve. 4.check valve is under pto shaft at back of pump,kind of looks like spark plug. 5.I bought above parts at ford dealer for 190 something with tax and had about three hours total time invested beginning to end.I could do the next one in an hour and a half easy.Also (I used the right stuff gasket maker)but you can use what you have. Now instead of leak down my back end blade stays up all night(dropped 2 inches in twelve hours) I am sure there are patches and cheaper ways
but if you consider your time as money,this way you have a brand new set up, and it will last years. Good Luck.

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Question for DJ - Phil B.

02-01-2004 17:53:49




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 Re: Re: Hydraulics Going Knock-Knock in reply to DJ in P.A., 02-01-2004 03:43:03  
DJ - Do you have the part numbers for the parts you described? With my luck, I'll buy the wrong parts... Thanks.


Phil B.



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Craig,Tex

02-01-2004 04:22:00




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 Re: Re: Hydraulics Going Knock-Knock in reply to DJ in P.A., 02-01-2004 03:43:03  
Mine is knocking too. I`ve heard of a cam in there that probably is worn,I don`t think their is much to fix`en it.The leak down is either the safty valve or the cylinder. Everytime I`d engaged the clutch my box blade would drop. The valve cost about $20.00 and that took care of it.



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