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Busted studs

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Russ in SoCal

02-28-2004 15:23:22




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Harbor Freight stud remover kit and two weeks of PB Blaster. Sixteen studs removed; yippee. Two broken off flush with the block: Boo. One drilled with 5/16 inch drill per 7/16 inch easy-out. The easy-out reamed the top couple threads off the stud and left the rest. Haven't touched the other except to keep it soaked with the PB. Ordered some left hand bits, but don't know when I'll see them.
Have a little propane torch. If absolutely necessary, a pair of ear plugs, an entire morning and I can probably borrow an air/acetylene set-up.
Plan "A" is wait for the 11/32 inch left hand bit and clean up as necessary with a tap. Had not planned on using a torch. Read in the archives where Zane mentioned these not being regular threads. Don't know if he was referring to the studs or the holes. Given what I've got, anybody have a better Plan "B?"
Thank-you N'ers,
Russ

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ZANE

02-28-2004 20:39:05




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 Re: Busted studs in reply to Russ in SoCal, 02-28-2004 15:23:22  
Why in the world did you pull all the studs out???? A little harder to get the head off when studs are used but better torque and no danger of the bolt holes in the block being worn out ever.

There is one thing you can do that would get the stud out most likely but you must be an accomplished welder. Place a steel nut a size larger than the broken stud or bolt. In this case that would be a 1/2" steel nut. Place the nut over the stud and weld inside the nut to the stud. A wire welder set sort of hot does the best job.

The only trouble with this is that if the nut shears off you are going to have a really hard broken off stud then that will have to have a carbide drill bit to cut it out.

When I worked at the Anniston Army Depot on the M1 A1 Abrams battles tanks we had to remove gun turrets from the larger turrets and they were held in with quarter inch bolts every inch around about a thirty inch diameter opening and try as we may there would always be some of them that would break off in the turrets castings. Now you can't throw away a turrett that cost 100 thousand dollars because a bolt is broken off in it.

Those welders in the turrett shop thought nothing off removing a hundred a day from the turrets. The way they did it you would have never believe would work. They took a small diameter steel welding rod that was about the same metalergy as a coat hanger and with acetylene and oxygen they would braze a ball onto the top of the little broken bolt or stud and while it was still red hot they would take a small pair of vice grips with good grippers still on the jaws and clamp onto the red hot ball of steel that was brazed onto the broken bolt or stud and nearly every time out it would come the first try. They might have to do it twice on one in 50.

This is what you call art!

Zane

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PloughNman

02-29-2004 03:52:31




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 Re: Re: Busted studs in reply to ZANE, 02-28-2004 20:39:05  
Hey Zane-
That is a great idea and it sounds like an experienced pro like yourself has used it before. The caution is as you said-busting the nut off before the stud loosens. The stud is made of hardened steel as it is and heating it again will only work-harden it. Carbide drill of course now. The trick is getting the drill straight so it doesn't walk out the side of the stud and into the wall of the block and ruin the threads.

Now I would place the head back on the block over the other studs and snug down. Go to a machine tool supply company and get a drill bushing with a 7/16 OD and a 3/8 ID to place in the head where the broken stud is. Now you have a "pilot" to help guide the drill straight. Hand drills will most certainly cause drill walk. A shop would have a portable magnetic base drill unit to clamp right on the block and insure a straight hole. That's why I first suggested a machine shop because they have all that stuff. Good question too why all the studs were removed in the first place.

Tim

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ZANE

02-29-2004 06:56:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Busted studs in reply to PloughNman, 02-29-2004 03:52:31  
That's what I love about this site. The knowledge that is so abundant! What you say makes perfect sense to me and I have never even heard of a drill guide much less seen one. If only I had known this 40 years ago! To think of the sweat and tears I could have avoided! Makes me want to cry and cuss at the same time! Rest assured I will have one the next time I try to drill out a broken stud. (That is if I can use one.) Thanks for the tip. I have a good friend who owns an industrial machine supply company and a macine shop across the road. (I can't afford their rates though!) About 100 bucks an hours plus material!!!!! ! OUCH!!!!!

Zane

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PloughNman

02-28-2004 18:39:31




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 Re: Busted studs in reply to Russ in SoCal, 02-28-2004 15:23:22  
Hey Russ-
If'N it were me, I'd take the head and block to a qualified machine shop and see if they'd do it for you as they have all the equipment to do the job right. Propane won't get it hot enough. Drilling with E-Z OUTS and LH drills may make it worse. The local shop that did my head and block boiled it for a day and that might just be the ticket to loosen up that stud. Good Ol' Zane probably meant that the studs are two different thread pitches as are all stud threads. Coarse threads always go into cast iron and fine threads go out. The studs for the head are 7/16-14 (into block) and 7/16-20 (out to accept the nut) You see the grain structure of cast iron will cause fine threads to strip out very easy so all threads into the block are coarse (UNC) threads. Its an engineering/metallurgy thing. Note your manifold studs, carburetor studs, etc, are the same way. hope this helps.

Tim "PloughNman" Daley

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Russ in SoCal

02-28-2004 19:22:28




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 Re: Re: Busted studs in reply to PloughNman, 02-28-2004 18:39:31  
Tim.
It ain't goin' to any shop I know of yet. Asked at the local auto parts store (at least second generation folks) and the auto shop teacher at the high school. Nobody is willing to make a recommendation. Went to one shop when I needed two bushings for a backhoe couple years ago. Took a similar bushing and made up an engineering drawing with views, dimensions and tolerances. Mistake. They had no idea what the drawing was and it took twenty minutes to explain "piece of metal, this big around and this long with this size hole in it." Yeah, I'm still looking for a shop with a machinist over twenty-five. Gonna need one eventually. Just hoping it's later rather than sooner.
Russ

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ALLEN HANSEN

02-29-2004 14:13:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Busted studs in reply to Russ in SoCal, 02-28-2004 19:22:28  
So cal. You have Ford flathead guys in your area. They will know who can do it. I ues MOUSE MILK that I get at Sacrament Sky Ranch. The may have a web site. I soak it for several days before I try to remove it. I found some stud remover and install sockets in the Summit Racing catalog. They are reasonably priced. Prevention being the best cure. Good Luck



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