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Front Mount Coil Math: FYI

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Phil (AZ)

02-05-2001 17:52:08




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The Front Mount Coil is, by design, a poor dissipater of HEAT and for this reason you need to limit the current.

Wattage = (V x V) / r or ( I x I) x r


Normal 6 V Coil with Ballast (3 x 3) / 1.0 = 9.0 Watts

6 V Coil w/o Ballast ( 6 x 6) / 1.0 = 36.0 Watts

6 V Running w/o B-res (7.5 X 7.5) / 1.0 = 56.25 Watts

I think it can be said will some certainty that the wattage must be (less than) < 36 watts or the COIL will fail. This gives us a Max. current of ~ 5 Amps

12 Volt Supply requires 2.4 ohms external
13.5 Volt (Running) requires 2.7 ohms external

(The regular Ballast Resister is .7 ohms Cold and about ~ 1.5 Ohms @ 3 Amps) SO you need 2 ea., in “series” (one after the other), and you are good for GO.

Example 12 V Coil , 3 ohms Primary The form of the coil and its heat dissipation are ~ equal to the 6 volt , so
you shouldn’t exceed 36 Watts IMHO (12 x 12) /3 = 48 Watts

Running ( 13.5 x 13.5) /3 = 60.75 Watts

If we want to limit the Heat to 36 watts we need a Max. current of ~ 3.5 amps

This calls for a ~1.0 Ohm External
Resistor (The regular Ballast Resister is .7 ohms Cold and about ~ 1.5 Ohms @ 3 Amps)

SO you need 2 ea., in “Parallel” (On top of each other) and you are good for GO.

Hope this helps

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Scott(Ks.)

02-06-2001 07:39:49




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 Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-05-2001 17:52:08  
Everyone is ignorant, only on different subjects. "Will Rogers"



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JIm

02-06-2001 07:04:34




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 Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-05-2001 17:52:08  
It is nice to be a electrion and no all the in and outs. I am all mixed up now. I have ford n series 12 volt conversion wiring diagram. That is the way I was gointo wire my 2N with the exc. of putting the Orig. risistor in line betwien the 6 volt coil and the ru-100 voltage reducer. NOW WHAT????.

Jim in AZ Thanks



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Bama8N

02-06-2001 05:31:46




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 Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-05-2001 17:52:08  
See? That's the reason I'm not a cat person!



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m me

02-05-2001 23:31:52




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 Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-05-2001 17:52:08  
This guy aint as smart as he thinks he is,(will some certainty)the coors light or possible other abuse.



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Salmoneye-Scarey!

02-05-2001 23:20:51




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 Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-05-2001 17:52:08  
But, I actually followed that....



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me me

02-05-2001 22:46:12




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 Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-05-2001 17:52:08  
i think this guy needs one of them padded cells.



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Fast Ed Ohio

02-05-2001 22:40:32




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 Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-05-2001 17:52:08  
I AM IMPRESSED (what did he say ? )



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Al English

02-05-2001 18:58:21




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 Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-05-2001 17:52:08  
Doggies....can that boy cipher.



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raytasch

02-05-2001 18:16:25




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 Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-05-2001 17:52:08  
Is all that a good enough reason to not run a front mount coil on anything but a show tractor..!!?? ray



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Phil (AZ)

02-06-2001 00:13:37




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 Re: Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to raytasch, 02-05-2001 18:16:25  
Raytasch, No! the Front mount will work just fine if the current is limited. The number of people frying coils or hard starting, bad performance, etc. can be corrected by buying 2ea oem Ballast Resistors and connecting them correctly.

I would suggest that the 6 Volt (Front mount) ballast resister reduces the current "too much"
and that's the reason its hard Starting. The Voltage measured across the coil is only ~2.4V (when the points are new) and ~2.4 Amps. This makes the system marginal

If you buy(have)2 Ballast resistors and
connect them in "Parallel" (side by side). The current will be limited to ~ 3.5 Amps. The difference in "spark" during starting/runing will be considerable. JMHO

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raytasch

02-06-2001 10:18:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-06-2001 00:13:37  
Would respectfully disagree with you about an N in the original configuration being hard to start. I have a '48 N in the, as near as I can tell, totally stock condition; still has the cloth covered wires in places and Ford logo on the coil and cap. I guarante you this N will not turn over half a dozen times till it starts, everytime. When I got the tractor it was caked with mud and crap so bad you could not see the distributor. I cleaned it only and it still starts quickly. If an N is right it will start but it has to be right. This N will stay as original. On the other hand I am a firm believer that for a front mount "workin'" N with a 12volt conversion you are better getting rid of the coil as designed and go with a standard coil mounted away from the front of the engine; cheaper, readily available, and at least as reliable. JMHO ray

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You guys got that now? / Claus

02-05-2001 18:03:49




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 Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-05-2001 17:52:08  
third party image

I hope you guys paid attention here, because there is going to be a quizz on this stuff tomorrow..
Happy Motoring
Claus



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Oops! I see my error......Sorry..Gary D

02-06-2001 01:52:41




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 Re: Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to You guys got that now? / Claus, 02-05-2001 18:03:49  
Lost my mind between 12V and 6V discussion. OK Phil,Claus, I have the ORIGINAL 6Volt FMD on a 9N. From what I'm reading here you're saying I need another ballast resistor in parallel so current will not be reduced as much thereby giving be better starting and running current??
My other question about non-OEM resistors still stands.

thanks
Gary D



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Gary D

02-06-2001 01:18:17




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 Re: Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to You guys got that now? / Claus, 02-05-2001 18:03:49  
You wrote in one message to connect resistors in series and in another to connect in parallel. Which one is correct? Also can you purchase a ballast resistor at Radio Shack or some other store? I don't want to pay $15.00 or so for another resistor/terminal assembly when all you say I need is another resistor.

Thanks,
Gary



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Phil (AZ)

02-06-2001 01:51:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to Gary D, 02-06-2001 01:18:17  
Gary, You can buy Resistor (alone) Tractor parts
Sponsers of this board ~$2.85 ( i too got caught with paying for that board that doesn't fit a 9N)

Don't buy Rat shack resistors (they are a fixed
value of R). The Ballast increases resistance with an increase in current. (.7 ohm cold and
~1.5 ohms @ 3 amps)

6 volt system, 6v coil = 2 in parallel
12volt System, 6v coil = 2 in series
12volt system, 12v coil= 2 in parallel

Only on Front Mount,

Hope this helps,

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CDN GUY

02-07-2001 05:47:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-06-2001 01:51:02  
What should it be for a side mount? I have two in series with 12 volt coil. Continues to cut out after running for awhile (when it runs that is). Hard to start when cold. Not sure if flooding or electrical.



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Phil (AZ)

02-07-2001 16:24:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to CDN GUY, 02-07-2001 05:47:42  
CDN GUY, Hmm side mount coil is a oil filled Can and fits a different thermal model.

Two Ballast resisters in series may (most likely) reduce the current flow to much. 12V Coils are manufactured with recommended External Ballast Resistors (.7 ohm coils) and others, those that are 3.0 Ohm or have special heat sinking capabilities.

Ballast Resistors are designed to operate at/or in the current limiting portion of their characteristics (the point that the resistance increases exponentially with respect to current) i.e. The ballast resistor used with the Front Mount N’s has a characteristic curve that starts at 2.4 amps, at that point an increase in voltage applied will not result in a corresponding increase in current. It is important to operate the resistor sufficiently “up” the characteristic curve (they run hot) so that a decrease in Voltage Applied (during Starting) will not result in a corresponding decrease of current. What that means is that selecting the correct ballast resister for the coil circuit involves V(voltage) vs. I (current) plots or access to that information (not likely unless a MIL spec exists)

To answer your question, use the ballast resistor recommend by the coil manufacture.
If its generic or unknown; measure the coil and if its 3 ohms no ballast is required (for a can coil) ... Try an Automotive Ballast resistor (ford or GM) If you use a ballast resistor that
has to "Low" a value it will burn-up, not your
COIL. So start low and move up

Sorry

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Phil (AZ)

02-07-2001 18:10:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-07-2001 16:24:40  
"If you use a ballast resistor that
has to "Low" a value it will burn-up, not your
COIL. So start low and move up"

Wrong! Wrong Edit:: If you use a ballast resistor that has a Low Current/High Resistance value it will not burn your COIL.

Hate it when the mind has a "Senior Moment"



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rbell

02-06-2001 06:05:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Front Mount Coil Math: FYI in reply to Phil (AZ), 02-06-2001 01:51:02  
I think I am confused, in series resistors add to make resistance total (2 + 2 = 4) and in parallel they basicly divide to make resistance total (2 / 2 = 1) Wether they are side by side, on top of each other, or positioned one after another has nothing to do with the electrical circuit they create, it is how you hook the ends together that matters.



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