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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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9N vs 2N ID

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Obi-Wan

03-28-2004 01:41:40




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It seems that the best way to ID an N-series tractor is to look up the engine block serial number and then consult the lists (like in the I&T FO4) to see what year your serial number was produced.

Alas, the 9N and 2N were both produced in 1942-43, and the serial numbers both fell in the same range. For those years, how do you tell whether you've got a 9N or a 2N? The tractors themselves are virtually identical, as far as I can tell.

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Intuitively Obvious

03-28-2004 22:21:37




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 Re: 9N vs 2N ID in reply to Obi-Wan, 03-28-2004 01:41:40  
Dell and Scott obviously have the same version of FO-4, it says one thing. Bob has an earlier version, it says another. I have two versions of FO-4. One earlier than Bob's which says 9N ended in '42 with #88934 and 2N started in '42 with #99047. BUT, the very latest version of FO-4 says 9N ended in 1943 with #105412 and the 2N started in '42 with 9003. This corresponds with the historians that say there was an overlap in production of 9N's and 2N's, so it must be "intuitively obvious" that new information continues to turn up and that there is room for reasonable doubt on the issue. Sorry folks, the "right answer" is yet to be known. There's just a "current" answer.
--Cap--

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Obi-Wan

03-28-2004 23:33:16




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 Re: Re: 9N vs 2N ID in reply to Intuitively Obvious, 03-28-2004 22:21:37  
Which historians are those? I'd love to get ahold of some kind of old documentation that tells how to distinguish between 9N's and "common" (non-magneto/steel) 2N's from 1942-3. If Ford produced them concurrently with different names, then there must have been _some_ difference between them.



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Cap-N-ID

03-29-2004 11:15:52




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 Re: Re: Re: 9N vs 2N ID in reply to Obi-Wan, 03-28-2004 23:33:16  
Obi-Wan, First, I must admit that I was teaseing Dell just a bit with the "intuitively obvious" sally (a much used saying of his), and so feel constrained to also say that even tho the horse he rides is sometimes rather tall, he is a good, knowledgeable, a very helpful source of information. He has been answering questions for folks for a long time and his opinions, although not always totally accurate (such as supercharging an "N" with a smog pump - won't work, insufficient volume of output), especially in the area of electronics, (which is his forte), are very helpful. He has a very good storehouse of "N" knowledge and obviously a good library of "N" books. Even more important, he's willing to help.
As to which historians discussed the overlap of 9N - 2N production. I have a decent collection of books written about the "N" series which I have collected over the years and to actually pin-point which one or ones discussed it I would have to go back and search through them. Will do it for you if you feel it's absolutely necessary but I believe its more important to know that it did occur, and then to VERY CAREFULLY look over your tractor paying special attention to all the "casting dates", one of which will be on almost every individual casting that goes into making up the tractor. These dates will normally cover a range of approx 3 to 4 months and your tractor probably rolled off the line following a couple of weeks after the last date. There's considerable information in the archives concerning casting dates. Go up to the "search" function at the top of the page and type in variations of "casting dates", "date stamps" etc. and you will find multile articles about where to find and how to read the various casting marks. Yes, there were differences between the various "N"'s, even within the specific models and the records of production line changes etc. are not only incompleate but often weren't even kept. A whole batch were lost in a factory fire. So, unless you have a "sales slip" pining down just EXACTLY when it was sold (not likely), it becomes a game trying to determine what you have and the answer will at best be an educated guess. It's part of the fun of owning these old machines. Start your own collection of Ford N Series books, they'll give you a great deal of pleasure, and remember, they aren't always totally accurate either !! Just more educated guesses and assumtions, even the ones that purport to lay out manufacturing specs, and dates of this or that feature starting or stopping etc. One source of these "History" books that often has sales is "Classic Motorbooks" -www-dot-motorbooks-dot-com-. Here's another, not often mentioned possible "truism". It's purported the Henry brought out the 2N model to avoid the Office of Price Administration (OPA) controls prohibiting price raises on existing products during the war (WWII). By calling it a new model, although it was almost identical to the 9N, he was able to establish a new, higher, price for the tractor. The changes that were made were the result of wartime scarcity of materials - rubber, wireing, etc. I lived through those times and remember them well. Let me know if you want me to dig back through my stuff for more info. But then you'd just have MY opinion, and you'll have more fun forming your own.
--Cap--

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Scott

03-28-2004 06:59:40




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 Re: 9N vs 2N ID in reply to Obi-Wan, 03-28-2004 01:41:40  
The 9N was up to serial# 9N99002 in 1942 and the 2N began at 9N99003 in 1942 there was not an overlap like aftermarket companies printed in their books, chrome covered knobs were removed on the 2N.



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Obi-Wan

03-28-2004 11:27:25




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 Re: Re: 9N vs 2N ID in reply to Scott, 03-28-2004 06:59:40  
So what caused these aftermarket companies (like the publisher of the I&T FO4 manual) to list the 9N as running through 1943? As accurate as that manaul appears to be on everything else, there must have been a good reason for them to write such a thing.



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Scott

03-28-2004 18:21:45




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 Re: Re: Re: 9N vs 2N ID in reply to Obi-Wan, 03-28-2004 11:27:25  
Maybe Ford played tricks on them since they were competition in some ways.



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Dell (WA)

03-28-2004 13:05:34




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 Re: Re: Re: 9N vs 2N ID in reply to Obi-Wan, 03-28-2004 11:27:25  
Obi-Wan..... ...my version of the I&T FO-4 STOPS the 9N s/n at 99002 in 1942 and STARTS the 2N s/n at 99003 in 1942. What part of that don't you understand?

Considering the scarcity of other N-Tractor information, I think we're pretty lucky to even have serial number information..... ...respectfully, Dell



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Obi-Wan

03-28-2004 23:29:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 9N vs 2N ID in reply to Dell (WA), 03-28-2004 13:05:34  
My version of the I&T FO-4 (most recently revised September 2003), lists the first serial number for each year of production (no ending serial number, unfortunately). Here's the overlapping info:

9N, 1941, 45976
9N, 1942, 88888
9N, 1943, 105412

2N, 1942, 99003
2N, 1943, 105375
2N, 1944, 126538

What part of that am I supposed to understand? ;-)

I find it very intriguing that the FO-4 apparently changes its serial number info from one printing to the next.

My serial number is 114941, which is obviously mid-1943. Without knowing the final serial number of the 1943 9N or how else to distinguish the two, I don't know which model I've got. I do find it odd that Ford would bother changing the designation of the tractor without changing anything anything about it.

My N does not have the magneto system. What where the non-steel 9N wheels made of?

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Scott

03-29-2004 18:17:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 9N vs 2N ID in reply to Obi-Wan, 03-28-2004 23:29:08  
Yours is a 2N, unless the engine was swaped yours should still have the long front axle pivot pin that came close the the crank hole in the grille to support and hold the hand crank, this was used from about serial# 9N100000 to about 9N120000 and a small hole for the front choke rod in the side panel to the left of the grille while standing in front, the rest of the items for your serial# were easily changed to non war time shortage production items so identifying is hard.

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Bob

03-28-2004 14:30:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 9N vs 2N ID in reply to Dell (WA), 03-28-2004 13:05:34  
MY version of the FO-4 lists 2N production beginning in 1942, with serial # 99047 being the first 2N produced, so obviously there are some discrepancies and corrections that have come along over the years.



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right answer . . . Dell (

03-28-2004 07:50:33




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 Re: Re: 9N vs 2N ID in reply to Scott, 03-28-2004 06:59:40  
Obi-Wan..... ...Scott's gotts the correct answer..... Dell



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Jeb2N

03-28-2004 06:10:01




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 Re: 9N vs 2N ID in reply to Obi-Wan, 03-28-2004 01:41:40  
That's a tricky one. Here's what I would do. Remember that the 2N was originally introduced as a wartime version of the 9N. That in mind, look for differences that may still exist of the tractor being a wartime model. For example, the magneto may still be on, steel wheels are a dead givaway...but there are subtle clues as well. The abscence of an electrical system meant that there was no ammeter so the hole in the dash wasn't punched out. However a lot were later punched out when the generator was later installed. May want to also look for a small hole in the left hand dogleg where the choke rod would have come through. The last difference that I think you could look for would be a permanently installed hand crank. Even if they did convert to 6V or 12V, few people took the extra time to remove the hand crank on the war models. If these features are missing, it could still be a 2N, but is more than likely a 9N. Use your best judgement. Hope this helps!

Jeb

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Thomas

03-28-2004 06:17:27




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 Re: Re: 9N vs 2N ID in reply to Jeb2N, 03-28-2004 06:10:01  
9N - 1939, 2N - 1942, 8N - 1948..... .



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