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9n engine block NEED HELP!

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Andy

02-14-2001 18:59:45




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tore down my 9n to replace rings and bearings. Discover two seperate cracks in the block one between the welch plugs and one on the oil filter side in the top front corner of the motor. with a flashlight I can see the crack from behind the water pump. I read archive about welding, but no experience. Are blocks available? What should I look for (besides cracks of course) if I should find one. How much should I expect to pay. Thanks I really was enjoying this job and I am currently very discouraged. If I ccan't find a block I 'll have a heck of a parts sale.
I would hate to see it go to that.
Andy

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bj/8N/mt

02-15-2001 08:27:24




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 Re: 9n engine block NEED HELP! in reply to Andy, 02-14-2001 18:59:45  
before you throw parts at it take the block in to a good machine shop and ask them for an estimate to repair it

from what you describe you will likely find out it isn't near the project you thought

I would ask around for references on the machine shop before I took it in.



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jim rainbolt

02-15-2001 08:15:06




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 Re: 9n engine block NEED HELP! in reply to Andy, 02-14-2001 18:59:45  
strip down engine and take to and auto mech shop and have it pined it will cost you about 100



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Jim in AZ

02-15-2001 07:47:28




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 Re: 9n engine block NEED HELP! in reply to Andy, 02-14-2001 18:59:45  
I have a 2N that I redid and it had a long crack on the left side that someone I thouthe welded it. When I took it to the machime shop they found 2 more small ones in it. So I ask them about welding it and they sead it was not welded before. It was pened. They sead they could do it. They drill a hole and then thred it and put a plug in it I ges. So far ok. Never herd of it but if it workes ok. Aney one out there heard of this???. Thankes

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Red Raider

02-15-2001 10:05:40




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 Re: Re: 9n engine block NEED HELP! in reply to Jim in AZ, 02-15-2001 07:47:28  
Yes, this in the only correct and long lasting way to repair a block, or head for that matter. Do not weld the block, it cannot be repaired with inserts after any welding has been done.

third party image



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Bill (in Colo)

02-15-2001 21:03:53




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 Re: Re: Re: 9n engine block NEED HELP! in reply to Red Raider, 02-15-2001 10:05:40  
Thanks for the great picture.

I had never heard of this sort cast iron repair.

Is the following procedure how it is done?
- Get cast-iron rod of known diameter.
- Drill adjacent holes of rod diameter.
- Insert rod pieces slightly longer than needed into each hole.
- Peen the rod ends to squish each rod segment tightly into its hole.
- Grind both sides (if possible).

...no heat, same material, no thermal cycle problems?

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Al English

02-16-2001 04:42:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 9n engine block NEED HELP! in reply to Bill (in Colo), 02-15-2001 21:03:53  
Hi Bill, The repairs of this type that I've seen were done with a tapered threaded plugs. I assume they are made especially for this purpose as I have never seen them anywhere else. The threads appear to be non-standard, so a special tap would also be needed. They seem to be made of iron. We had some of these plugs at a shop where I worked(wish I had saved one), but I haven't installed any, and I don't believe I know anyone who has. Some of the casting repair services that used to advertised in Hemmings Motor News did this type of repair, so that would be one place to look for getting it done. Many people could probably do it themselves. But like most things, there are likely to be do's and don'ts that one would be well served by knowing up front...Al English

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Brad

02-18-2001 06:25:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 9n engine block NEED HELP! in reply to Al English, 02-16-2001 04:42:09  
I just got my threaded pins from locknstitch. You can go to www.locknstitch.com and check 'em out. If I can get my lazy self out there and fix the crack I'll let you know how they work.



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Al English

02-15-2001 12:01:44




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 Re: Re: Re: 9n engine block NEED HELP! in reply to Red Raider, 02-15-2001 10:05:40  
Hi Red, The overlapping plug method shown in your photo seems to work ok. I saw an extensively cracked Rolls-Royce head repaired this way. It must have had 100 plugs in it, but it didn't leak. There was one area where the original metal was replaced with patch, and even the patch was held in with plugs. With the repair all ground to the right contours and painted it was invisible. On the subject of welding, you are sort of right. If someone welds on it using conventional techniques the iron becomes harder than Supermans..... ....well, it gets really hard. However, if it is properly welded in the manner that Claus described, the iron is not hardened. Unfortunately there are few poeple who are good at this type of welding, and the welded part requires a fair amount of machining to get everything back to straight, square, and level...Al English

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chuck

02-15-2001 06:17:13




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 Re: 9n engine block NEED HELP! in reply to Andy, 02-14-2001 18:59:45  
I had my 8N's block welded by the shop doing the rebuild 8 years ago and today it works fine. The shop did not even wince at welding the block and I saw no charge specifically identified for the welding repairs. The shop was obviously doing a lot of heavy equipment engine work and welding blocks seemed to be just part of the routine. Look for a good heavy equipment shop and they can probably fix it up very reasonably. I was moaning about where to get a new block when I found my cracks. Now I couldn't find the repairs if I didn't know they were there and I feel a lot better about the longevity of repairs than I would have if I used glue. The cracks in mine were glued and didn't leak until I disturbed them.

chuck
436244

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Claus

02-15-2001 06:14:23




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 Re: 9n engine block NEED HELP! in reply to Andy, 02-14-2001 18:59:45  
Do not attempt to weld or have a buddy do it. To correctly weld a cast iron block, the block would have to be heated in a furnace to about 1100 deg. Otherwise the welding process causes stresses as it cools and makes a bigger mess of things. I second the get a rebuilt block from CT Farm and Country. A used block may exhibit the same problems once you take a closer look at it. I would also stay away from mickey mouse fixes with JB Weld. I can hear the torrent of replies now, such as This JB Weld was done by my great great grandfather who came over on the Mayflower and it still runs great... Maybe so...but...
Happy Motoring
Claus

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Claus

02-15-2001 06:18:28




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 Re: Re: 9n engine block NEED HELP! in reply to Claus, 02-15-2001 06:14:23  
Maybe they should mold Engine Blocks out of JB Weld. Then they would be fixable forever.. How's that for an idea? Eh...
Happy Motoring
Claus



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Brad

02-15-2001 08:03:51




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 Re: Re: Re: 9n engine block NEED HELP! in reply to Claus, 02-15-2001 06:18:28  
They are experimenting with blocks cast out of phenolic resins. If I remember correctly they are casting plastic heads, too. The blocks are, of course, sleeved and the heads have ceramic combustion chambers. Some cars already have plastic intake manifolds. It won't be too long before all you need for an overhaul is three or four tubes of JB weld!



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Bill (in Colo)

02-14-2001 21:12:21




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 Re: 9n engine block NEED HELP! in reply to Andy, 02-14-2001 18:59:45  
I am always amazed at what people do with
cracked 9N blocks. Epoxy, or fiberglass repairs
are common materials found on the sides of tractor
blocks at the local auctions. Even MORE amazing
is that some of these thrifty repairs appear
to sort-of work (at least long enough to get them to the auction yard). I suspect that the low pressure 9N radiators account for these repairs
not failing immediatly at the first sign of heat.

I have a 1998 Central Tractor catalog that lists
9N rebuilt block assemblies as costing $1299.95
outright (1199.95 exchange). Might be a place
to start if brazing/welding doesn't seem to be
the right answer.

I assume that your crack repair algorithm would be
to weld/braze the known cracks, then pressure test
to find any remaining, repair those, test-repair-test... until it is water tight again.
I suspect that if you had a major crack at the lower part of the block, that it would quickly provide a drainage service to prevent future
cracks.

...personally, I find antifreeze a more satifying long-term solution :-)

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Al English

02-14-2001 19:55:56




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 Re: 9n engine block NEED HELP! in reply to Andy, 02-14-2001 18:59:45  
Sounds like it may have frozen? You know where you stand with the cracks you have found. What I'd be more concerned about is the one(s) you may not have found. One hates to put too much time & effort into what could prove to be a dead end. On the other hand, the alternative is to spend a fair piece of change to retire something that me be usable. Good luck...Al English



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Tom WY

02-14-2001 19:45:40




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 Re: 9n engine block NEED HELP! in reply to Andy, 02-14-2001 18:59:45  
Hey, email me if you want to purchase one from NW Wyoming. I think its still available....



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JimNC

02-14-2001 19:36:12




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 Re: 9n engine block NEED HELP! in reply to Andy, 02-14-2001 18:59:45  
If'n you were not losing any water before I'd put it back together. If you don't want to do that check some of the boneyards out at the link below.
You could pay anywhere from 400 to 800 dollars for one.



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