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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Detergent oil in tractors?

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Reno J.

04-23-2004 06:41:19




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How many of you run a detergent oil in your old iron? Whats the ins and outs? thanks Reno J.




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Duner Wi

04-23-2004 16:17:46




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 Re: Detergent oil in tractors? in reply to Reno J., 04-23-2004 06:41:19  
I always run detergent oil . Only time I would not is new overhall for the first 15 minutes and then I cange to detergent.



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dw

04-23-2004 15:47:27




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 Re: Detergent oil in tractors? in reply to Reno J., 04-23-2004 06:41:19  
As a kid growing up in the late 40's and early 50's we had a flathead ford V/8 and a B John Deere, and later an A John Deere. Dad always used a good quality detergent oil in his equipment. He never considered non-detergent for his use.



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Gaspump

04-23-2004 08:00:47




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 Re: Detergent oil in tractors? in reply to Reno J., 04-23-2004 06:41:19  
Detergent oil was always the oil of choice in N tractors. Only folks that did not use it were either uninformed or opted to use cheap ten cent bulk oil to save a few pennies.



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Not Correct.

04-23-2004 09:27:08




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 Re: Re: Detergent oil in tractors? in reply to Gaspump, 04-23-2004 08:00:47  
That's not correct. In my original owners manual for my 1953 NAA, it clearly says: "Use a non-detergent engine oil"
I would bet that some people used non-detergent oil, not because they were dumb, or cheap. But because the manual told them do use it. So, detergent oil sure was NOT the oil of choice back then.
It is now. It was not then. Things have changed.



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Gaspump

04-23-2004 11:48:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Detergent oil in tractors? in reply to Not Correct., 04-23-2004 09:27:08  
Beg to differ old pal. Our 1940 9N used detergent oil from the git go, spec was 30W summer no mention of ND. Our 1950 8N used SAE 30W detergent in summer from the git go also, again no mention in the 8N manual of ND in the engine itself. Only place ND engine oil was speced was in the steering box and OK for the air cleaner. In fact we often had the local Ford Tractor dealer change the oil in both units and they too always used 30W SAE detergent that in the mid 1950's even came in Ford Tractor cans! It would be most foolhardy to use anything but detergent motor oil in a new engine, especially in an VIH engine. Only exception to this I know of is that the FAA requires ND aviation oil in recip engines on new start ups after which it must immediately be changed to the operating oil. Yes there were also people out there that were so cheap that they only bought the ten cent a quart bulk ND oil, I was accuainted with a few, sadly we had a friend nearby that also used ten cent bulk in his Mc Cormick Deering 10-20 because no way could he afford anything better. In fact my father used to keep some bulk oil around the farm to give him as the man on occasion would stop by and ask to have our drain oil for his tractor.

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Gaspump

04-23-2004 11:44:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Detergent oil in tractors? in reply to Not Correct., 04-23-2004 09:27:08  
Beg to differ old pal. Our 1940 9N used detergent oil from the git go, spec was 30W summer no mention of ND. Our 1950 8N used SAE 30W summer from the git go also, again no mention in the 8N manual of ND in the engine itself. Only place ND engine oil was speced was in the steering box and OK for the air cleaner. In fact we often had the local Ford Tractor dealer change the oil in both units and they too always used 30W SAE that in the late 1950's even came in Ford Tractor cans! It would be most foolhardy to use anything but detergent motor oil in a new engine, especially in an VIH engine. Only exception to this is that the FAA requires ND aviation oil in recip engines on new start ups after which it must be changed to the operating oil. Yes there were also people out there that were so cheap that they only bought the ten cent a quart bulk ND oil, I was accuainted with a few, sadly we had a friend nearby that also used ten cent bulk in his Mc Cormick Deering 10-20 because no way could he afford anything better. In fact my father used to keep some bulk oil around the farm to give him as he on occasion would stop by and ask to have our drain oil for his tractor.

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I'm just saying

04-23-2004 12:02:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Detergent oil in tractors? in reply to Gaspump, 04-23-2004 11:44:42  
...that in my NAA manual, it says: "Use Non Detergent Engine Oil".
I am not saying you didn't use it on your 9n, or that it was not available. Only that my manual said not to use it, back in 1953. And that might be why some people didn't use it.



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Gaspump

04-23-2004 12:23:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Detergent oil in tractors? in reply to I'm just saying, 04-23-2004 12:02:24  
Not to doubt or question you but I find it quite strange that FMC would put that in a 1953 manual and not in previous manuals especially for an VIH tractor engine when in fact it was not the normal practice of the day. By the way our next tractor we purchased after the 1950 8N was you guessed it, a new 1953 NAA which used recommended 30W detergent oil too. I also did a stint working for Ford Tractor at 2500 E. Maple Rd, Birmingham MI in the late 1950's in the dealer relations dept and may understand how the writers may have came to put that in the manual. Only chance thay had to see one was on occasion in the front lobby or at a good distance away in the proving grounds far behind the employee parking lot. I am saying that non detergent oil is not suited for use in N nor NAA tractors.

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Bruce (VA)

04-23-2004 07:13:55




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 Re: Detergent oil in tractors? in reply to Reno J., 04-23-2004 06:41:19  
About the only thing I can add to Sounder's comprehensive response is an alternative to the change over to detergent oil process. Some folks like to add a quart or so of Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) to the crankcase, run it at operating temp for a couple of hours, and then drain it all out & replace with detergent oil.



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souNdguy

04-23-2004 07:00:59




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 Re: Detergent oil in tractors? in reply to Reno J., 04-23-2004 06:41:19  
There are many lengthy discussions on oils int he archives.. probably as many opinions as there are choices.

I'll run down the brief of the major opinions.

Some don't like to switch to det if the engine has been non-det for its life, fearing: it will leak in places that may have been sealed by deposits.. aand also they fear that a large amount of gunk will suddenly jump into suspension and clog/gum up the works.

Some truth to this...

Some gradually change over to a det oil, by using half det and half non-det at an intermediate oil change.

Some go full detergent, but half way thru te oil change interval, they change the oil filter...

That would be my vote.. change to a good detergent oil.. and keep an eye on what it looks like.. if nasty.. change the filter, and or oil before the scheduled change. When i got my jd-b.. I couldn't identify what mysterious oily fluid was in the crankcase.. I went to wallmart and bought their big 2.5 gallon jugs of 'supertch' oil.. fairly generic.. but met the gas engine standards.. etc.. and was cheap cheap cheap. I changed the oil in that tractor 3 times that week. I would let it run a few hours and pull the nasty filter and change the oil.. last change was fairly clean.. so then I went with my staple.. a valvoline fleet sae 30wt.. hd and diesel service rated.

Some like the light multiweight oils.. like 10w30.. others claim the 10w30 is too thin and makes the oil pump loose prime. ( my opinion is that the oil pump looses prime due to a problem.. not the oil.. but? who knows? ) Probably the bulk of us run a straight 30wt.. or even a straight 40wt if we need a little more oil pressure. Even a heavy multi-viscosity 20w50 is reported by some of the longterm members as working great. Pretty much any oil you can by anywhere, any brand.. including jiffy store '80 cent a quart special.. is going to be superior to what these machines ran on in the 30's 40's and 50's when new.

There has also been some limited discussion on synthetic oil lubricating and providing better protection at initial startup than a dino oil. Also it is reported that burning synthetic oil doesn't smoke nearly as bad as a 'blue mosquito fogger' that is burning dino oil... ( I can't verify that .. but if true.. a moderate smoker can look good for a show or parade with a quick oil change...? )

Best thing to do no matter what your choice is, is to keep clean oil in the engine and change the filter regularly.

don't forget to service the radiator and the air cleaner..

Soundguy

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Doug

04-24-2004 14:43:24




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 Re: Re: Detergent oil in tractors? in reply to souNdguy, 04-23-2004 07:00:59  
I recently got an 8n and when I changed the oil 15W-40, i noticed white froth in the oil breather. Is that moisture? I guess that's bad so I cleaned it out the best I could and figured I'd cut the grass a couple times with it then change the oil and filter again. The starting oil pressure is in the 30's then drops to about 10psi after the engine gets hot. Question: should I remove and stretch the spring in teh oil pump or change to straight 30w oil? Or both? Thanks in advance, Doug in Missouri.

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souNdguy

04-24-2004 20:50:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Detergent oil in tractors? in reply to Doug, 04-24-2004 14:43:24  
Yes.. white froth in oil is generally moisture in emulsion.. though could be entrapped air.. If it 'disapears.. it is air.

The air breather tends to accumulate moisture.
Clean it frequently.

The drop in oil pressure is just the engine showing its age.

If you like the multi-visc. oils.. try a 20w50.. or a sae 40.

If you have 40 psi cold.. I doubt your bypass spring is a problem...

Soundguy

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