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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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2N rough run / overheat?

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Obi-Wan

05-05-2004 11:34:30




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This spring, I replaced the plugs & wires and cleaned out the fuel line/filters on my dad's 1943 2N. It ran great for a while, but about 20 minutes into grading the lane recently, it started acting really bad. My dad was able to limp it back home by holding the choke open.

I figured it was a heat-related problem like the ignition switch, but when I started it up cold yesterday, it still ran very bad & needed the choke to stay running. As I turned it off after 30 seconds of running, I noticed a fair amount of exhaust-like smoke eminating from where the #1 exhaust manifold port meets the head. No apparent leaks or cracks there, though.

I checked the fuel lines, and they're still clean. When I checked the coolant, it was about 3 qts low. My fear is that my dad overheated the engine and cooked a valve or something. Is this likely?

I'm gonna pull off the distributor and carb today and check those over. I could probably do a compression test on the #2-4 cylinders, but removing the #1 plug is quite difficult due to the location of the bracket for the 12V alternator (it requires draining the coolant and removing a head bolt that runs into the water jacket.

The ignition switch is basically clean and looks fine at a glance. All the wire connections are clean. The balast resister was removed during the 12V conversion.

Any ideas?

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souNdguy

05-05-2004 13:35:34




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 Re: 2N rough run / overheat? in reply to Obi-Wan, 05-05-2004 11:34:30  
Good advice so far.. But I'll add one thing.

When you say 3qts low.. are you meaning that you put in 3 qts and then the radiator was slap full? If so.. it is now over full... You only fill these N radiators up to just cover the core.. the top tank is expansion area.

Also.. check your oil for signs of water emulsion in it, and also.. next tiem you start it cold.. leave the cap off and look for compression bubbles, as well as combustion by-products in the radiator..
( you getting nice white smoke out the exhaust too? )

good luck

Soundguy

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Obi-Wan

05-05-2004 15:50:53




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 Re: Re: 2N rough run / overheat? in reply to souNdguy, 05-05-2004 13:35:34  
When I said 3 qts low, I meant that I added 2 qts (all I had on hand), which brought the level up half way through the top tank. After running it for 30 seconds, the level dropped back down to nearly flush with the top of the core, so I figured I could add another quart or so. I hadn't thought about there not being any overflow space. I guess the level is probably good where it is now, meaning it was only about a half gallon low before.

After that second running, the coolant looked clean. I'll check for bubbles & the condition of the motor oil next time I'm out there.

I didn't look at the exhaust color, but since the tractor is currently backed into an unlit shed, I probably couldn't have determined the color even if I had. I'm gonna try to move it back up to the garage next time. I hope it'll run well enough to make it there.

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souNdguy

05-05-2004 16:18:02




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 Re: Re: Re: 2N rough run / overheat? in reply to Obi-Wan, 05-05-2004 15:50:53  
good luck.

post what you find.

Soundguy



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Dell (WA)

05-05-2004 12:16:34




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 Re: 2N rough run / overheat? in reply to Obi-Wan, 05-05-2004 11:34:30  
Obi-wan..... ...its so eazy to use a jumper wire with alligator clippies to by-pass the ignition switch, why do you fight it? Your description is consistant with weak sparkies, hard starting, missing; enriching your mixture with the choke makes weak sparkies fire eazier but doesn't "cure" the weak sparkie issue.

Iff'n yer coolant was 3qts low and you had "white smoke" (otherwize known as STEAM) emaninating from near your #1 exhaust manifold, yer probably blew yer headgasket and it was peeing out the gasket weakness. A blown headgasket will also cause missing and rough running. It should be intutuitively obvious iff'n ya gottsa blown headgasket.

Altho its probably a 99% probability that ya blew yer headgasket, why don't you PROVE ME WRONG by taking a compression test? So what iff'n yer 12 volt alternator bracket headbolt leaks? I've NEVER known anysort of brackettery to obstruct access to a sparkplug, thats dumb..... ....respectfully, Dell

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Obi-Wan

05-05-2004 16:02:47




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 Re: Re: 2N rough run / overheat? in reply to Dell (WA), 05-05-2004 12:16:34  
The last time you suggested that the ignition switch was the culprit, you said it was due to crud buildup. Since the switch is clean and the contacts with the wires look great, I didn't bother trying to bypass it. If the switch can deteriorate suddenly without completely failing and without any external signs of a problem, then I'll give it a test.

The smoke from the exhaust was definitely NOT steam. It was also definitely not coming from an external portion of the exhaust gasket. It seemed to be coming from all around the #1 exhaust port. I'll try pulling the manifold & checking the gasket & surface condition. Was there originally supposed to be a manifold gasket on these old engines, or where the surfaces just supposed to be machined flat with no gasket?

Yes, positioning the bracket so that it blocked access to the #1 plug was stupid. I didn't do it, though -- my dad hired someone else to do the 12V conversion a few years ago. The more I work on this tractor, the less impressed I am with the job that guy did.

I'll try to do a compression test next time I'm out there. Perhaps I can find another kind of wrench that will fit with the bracket in place.

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Dell (WA)

05-05-2004 20:06:52




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 Re: Re: Re: 2N rough run / overheat? in reply to Obi-Wan, 05-05-2004 16:02:47  
Obi-Wan..... ....ignition switch crud is INTERNAL and NOT VISABLE. Don't fight it, by-pass it, its so eazy with alligator clippies.

Prove me wrong, do a compression test, 'cuz yer descriptions are consistant with blown headgasket.

Yes, yer intake/exhaust manifold has 2 block gaskets and carb gasket. Warning: yer manifold nuts are special BRASS 5/8 hex for 7/16 studs. They are suppposed to "strip" if corroded tight. (replace them with NEW BRASS NUTS) The block studs are supposed to be torqued to 55 ft/lbs and the brass studnuts torqued to 27 ft/lbs..... ....Respectfully, Dell

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Hey DELL...OT...John,PA

05-05-2004 12:48:52




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 Re: Re: 2N rough run / overheat? in reply to Dell (WA), 05-05-2004 12:16:34  
I was sooooo impressed the other day with that old STANDARD gasoline engine that sounded like a work-horse, that I have an idea.

By the way, Collier's dictionary, 1954 edition has, what I think, is a picture of a sheep farm in WASHINGTON STATE. Courtesy of DuPont de Nemours, Agriculture Dept and the US Dept. of Agriculture. It is in the "W" book, "W" standing for woolen socks. :})



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Dan

05-06-2004 06:00:49




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 Re: Re: Re: 2N rough run / overheat? in reply to Hey DELL...OT...John,PA, 05-05-2004 12:48:52  
huh????? ???



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Jeff in Pa

05-05-2004 12:10:19




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 Re: 2N rough run / overheat? in reply to Obi-Wan, 05-05-2004 11:34:30  
I would start with the exhaut manifold or the gasket bud. I had the same deal with my hunting clubs 8n and found the manifold to be cracked.Remember that these manifolds do double duty. Exhaust and intake manifold, once i replaced the mnaifold and gasket no more problems. I think I recall Dell or Mark Hendershot tellin me to open a propane torch and hold it around the manifold, if the sputtering goes away you found your problem, if that doesnt work use the force obi wan..... lmao.Good luck

Jeff

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