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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Weird Wild Unusual Electrical Problem !!!

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Andrew

05-10-2004 19:04:33




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Hi All!

I have a 1951 Allis Chalmers type B with which I have had a very puzzling electrical problem. I'm posting to the Ford N Forum because the real electricity experts seem to hang out here. This problem is so unusual, that even if it doesn't get solved, its worth adding to the knowledge bank at these archives.

For the record, the tractor is a converted 12 volt system, alternator, ballast resistor and 6 volt coil.

The tractor was recently running really weak, then quit all together. I started tracing the problem back through the electrical system. No matter what I tried, I could not start the thing. I only suceeded in running the battery down from working the starter. Somewhere during the diagnosis, I carefully pulled the cable off the coil to ensure I was getting a good, solid spark between the coil and the plug cord. I engaged the starter and saw strong, inch-long sparks coming off the center lug of the coil - then suddenly, the tractor unexpectedly puffed to life! As long as I held the wire about an inch off of the coil, the tractor ran great! Too far away, and the spark couldn't junp the gap so the tractor died. Too close or touching the coil - the tractor starts to gag, miss, hesitate, blat and finally quit. That's right - the tractor runs BETTER with the cord removed from the coil, not when it is attached to the coil. Weird huh?

Well, this afternoon I tried to solve this problem using several different approaches - but none seemed to solve the problem. I tried my 6V coil with an external ballast resistor, I bought a new 12V coil with internal resistor, I traded out the condensor with the spare I keep on the shelf. I increased the point gap from 0.020 to 0.022. I even spoke sweet nothings into its distributor cap. In EVERY case, I could get the tractor running only when the coil plug wire is removed from the coil and the spark is forced to jump across the one-inch gap. I even showed my wife so I'd have a witness to this oddity. I'm stumped. Once started and hot, it is possible to replace the wire into the coil and keep the tractor going, but it hesitates, misses, blats, coughs, and runs really rough. By throttling up and easing it into gear,I was able to move it closer to the house to work on it further this Saturday. But it is currently in no condition to mow the yard.

Anyone else here had this problem? What could possibly cause this problem that I haven't already replaced? I am guessing its a timing thing. That's all that's left to change (and I tried that already too).

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souNdguy

05-11-2004 06:47:18




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 Re: Weird Wild Unusual Electrical Problem !!! in reply to Andrew, 05-10-2004 19:04:33  
I agree with the others.

Reading some vintage literature I've even found adds for little adjustable spark gaps that were glas encased..called them spark intensifiers.. essentially the spark was jumping a small gap before it got to the plug.

Electrically what is happening is the high voltage is increasing to a higher potential before jumping/dischargine, due to the extra air gap..

Soundguy



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Fast Ed Ohio

05-10-2004 23:59:19




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 Re: Weird Wild Unusual Electrical Problem !!! in reply to Andrew, 05-10-2004 19:04:33  
I see a " tune up in your near future " I replace plugs, points and cond. every year or two in my old 8n, it starts and runs well most of the time .



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Dell (WA)

05-10-2004 20:57:01




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 Re: Weird Wild Unusual Electrical Problem !!! in reply to Andrew, 05-10-2004 19:04:33  
Andrew..... ..this is classic fouled sparkies problem. The extra "air-gap" really shocks the sparkie past all the carbon build-up enuff to ignite the fuel mixture. Fouled sparkies can be caused by bad rings and oiling the sparkies. Can be caused by incorrect "heat-range", use a HOTTER heat range to burn off contaminates. Can be caused by too wide sparkie gap. Can be caused by incorrectly adjusted carburator. Can be caused by "fuel lead additives" which arn't lead ennyways, EPA ya knows.

Its NOT A TIMING PROBLEM.

Start by inspecting/changeing yer sparkies, check the gap rite outta the box..... ....respectfully, Dell, the self-appointed sparkie-meister

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Rusty 2N

05-10-2004 20:37:25




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 Re: Weird Wild Unusual Electrical Problem !!! in reply to Andrew, 05-10-2004 19:04:33  
This is why they invented the anti foul inserts. Try new hotter plugs. Then figure out what is foulin out your plugs. It's these little challenges in life that make it worth livin. Good luck.



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Duner Wi

05-10-2004 19:24:08




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 Re: Weird Wild Unusual Electrical Problem !!! in reply to Andrew, 05-10-2004 19:04:33  
I am guessing you have at least 2 or more real oily or dirty spark plugs.
I have a Ford truck I run for years with the plug wire wire held about a 1/4 inch from the plug with rubber bands and popsicle stick. Plug does not foul any more.



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B. Jones

05-10-2004 19:19:57




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 Re: Weird Wild Unusual Electrical Problem !!! in reply to Andrew, 05-10-2004 19:04:33  
My first guess is that you need NEW Spark Plugs. They could be about fouled out. Holding the coil wire away and causing it to jump a gap increases the voltage. I have seen this before when a plug would not fire. If you held the wire back and made it jump then the plug would start hitting again. If I put the wire back on then it would miss. Try some new plugs.



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