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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Charging system?

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Adam

05-11-2004 18:27:24




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First let me start by saying I just bought my 8n. Other then seeing that it has four wheels and a steering wheel, I dont know much about the thing. But I do know that the battery isnt charging. I have two questions,

1. Other than it has a 12 volt battery how can I be sure that it has a 12 volt charging system?

2. Will a 12 volt battery fry a 6 volt system?

Any help would be great.




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Adam

05-13-2004 18:36:12




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 Re: Charging system? in reply to Adam, 05-11-2004 18:27:24  
Well it seems the guy that I bought the tractor from didnt know that it had a positive ground system in it. I turned the cables around on the battery and everything seems to work just fine. I got a multi-meter and tested at the generator and it may be a little weak but it is putting out 12.5v to 12.8v. So that answers my question as to if it is a 6v or 12v system. My question now is, has there been any damage done to the system that I need to look for.

Thanks for all the help guys.

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Rob

05-12-2004 18:16:40




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 Re: Charging system? in reply to Adam, 05-11-2004 18:27:24  
You have a generator and it's most likely a 6v system. Is that a new battery or an old dirty battery?
How do you know it isn't charging? Did it start and run? Seems you have some info to give that would might really help figure out what is going on.
So, what is going on?
What exactly is the problem?



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Adam

05-12-2004 18:44:39




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 Re: Re: Charging system? in reply to Rob, 05-12-2004 18:16:40  
It has a brand new battery and battery cables on it. I got the tractor last Saturday and it started and ran fine. On Sunday it was running and just died out of no where. It took a little bit but I figured out that there was a loose wire on the ammeter. In the process of cranking before I found the loose wire the battery ran down. Now I have to start it with a jumper box. Once it starts it runs great it just doesnt seem to charge the battery.

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OK! Rob

05-12-2004 20:45:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Charging system? in reply to Adam, 05-12-2004 18:44:39  
Did you put the battery in there or is that what came with it? How do you know it's a 12v battery?
I'm asking these really basic questions because you mentioned you don't know much about it.
Notwithstanding the battery the voltage regulator might need to be polarized.



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Adam

05-13-2004 05:09:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Charging system? in reply to OK! Rob, 05-12-2004 20:45:14  
The battery and the cables were in it when I got it. The battery says 12v right on top of it.

thanks for the help.



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Rob

05-13-2004 06:23:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Charging system? in reply to Adam, 05-13-2004 05:09:43  
Morning. Hey it's very, very unlikely it is a 12v generator and 12v system. It can happen so you probably need to check it out. You're getting coached on that.
Remember one important thing if you have to replace that 12v batt with a 6v. The cable size is critical. The cables on there might well be 12v cables (less expensive 4guage & too small).
You want a 10" ground strap. Tractor Supply has a 14" 2gauge strap. (Most likely to the positive post.) and a 1gauge 10.5" cable for the other post. You might have to go a little longer like a stock size 14" but it's important to have near the minimum length and, of course, the proper gauge (or bigger). You can mail order the near exact size if you want. Maybe your local Ford/New Holland tractor dealer has some.
Exide sells a good battery for that tractor. It has more cranking amps than the battery at Tractor Supply and the like. Spend the extra $10 bucks or so to get more cranking amps; for sure if it gets below 20-degrees where you live.
And be careful around that tractor. That machine is powerful and carelessness around moving parts can hurt you. You need a higher 'situational awareness' around a tractor than a car or truck. Think about every move you are going to make, before you do it. I've got some background and have always tried to keep safety first but I still have an occasional boy-that-was-a-stupid-thing-to-do-lucky-I-didn't-get-hurt experience. Just think about where you have your hand or leg, where you're about to put your hand or leg, and what is going to happen when you change the control or do what ever it is you are about to do. Keep that in mind and you can get a lot done and enjoy doing it.

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BillM (OH)

05-11-2004 21:48:28




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 Re: Charging system? in reply to Adam, 05-11-2004 18:27:24  
Like the others say if it's got an alternator, then it's 12 volt and negative ground. + terminal on the battery should be hooked to the starter solenoid, negative terminal on the battery to ground. If somebody just threw a 12 volt battery into a 6 volt system, the regular generator won't charge it and you'll fry downstream stuff -- like the coil, etc.
Come back to the board with more info when you get a chance to check it all out & lots of folks will help you with whatever your problem is.....

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Rob

05-11-2004 19:04:36




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 Re: Charging system? in reply to Adam, 05-11-2004 18:27:24  
Hope you know what an alternator looks like. If it has an alternator it is 12v. Alternator or generator is run by a fan belt on the front of the engine. Generator is longer than it's diameter. Much longer. An alternator isn't. Generator looks like it belongs on that tractor while an alternator looks out-of-place. Note the classic art deco style of the N.



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Dave

05-11-2004 18:38:36




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 Re: Charging system? in reply to Adam, 05-11-2004 18:27:24  
Is it positive ground or negative. If negative then it's probably a 12 volt. As far as your last question....yep..learned that one the hard way.



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Adam

05-11-2004 18:50:47




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 Re: Re: Charging system? in reply to Dave, 05-11-2004 18:38:36  
I am not sure if it is a positive or negative ground. The thing is I bought the tractor and it has a brand new battery and battery cables on it. And I dont think the guy I bought it from really new either and he could have put everything on backwards. If the wires are on backwards will that keep the battery from charging?

Once again any help would be great.



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souNdguy

05-12-2004 05:04:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Charging system? in reply to Adam, 05-11-2004 18:50:47  
Go look under your car's hood to see what an alternator is.. should be a shiny aluminum looking thing with a pulley and wires.. if it has hoses.. move to the next shiny thing with wires.. now go compair that with whats on the tractor.. if it is long like a 2 liter soda.. then its a genny.. if its short and aluminum.. its an alternator.

To check ground polarity.. follow the two big battery wires.. one will touch the chassie.. one goes to the starter.. let us know what you find.. and we will help further.

Soundguy

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Adam

05-12-2004 06:42:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Charging system? in reply to souNdguy, 05-12-2004 05:04:52  
I looked at the thing again before I came to work. It is longer than it is wide and it doesnt have a fan on it like an alternator does. As far as the battery cables the hot wire goes to the starter and the negative goes to the frame. Is there such a thing as a 12v generator?

Once again any help would be great.



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Jim Cox

05-12-2004 10:43:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Charging system? in reply to Adam, 05-12-2004 06:42:09  
can you get ahold of a multimeter? holler back if you can or try coxster at yahoo dot com

Jim Cox
Stealth 12V Generator Guy

Hey John.PA ! How's your fine iron running these days?



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Adam

05-12-2004 11:08:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Charging system? in reply to Jim Cox, 05-12-2004 10:43:00  
I will pick one up tonight.



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souNdguy

05-12-2004 06:57:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Charging system? in reply to Adam, 05-12-2004 06:42:09  
Let us know whether you have the later 8n genny.. it will have 3 terminals on it.. one large armature stud on the back .. and a field stud on top.. ( it will have a rubber or phenolic washer at its base as an insulator..) and a ground terminal.. a stud that will be common with the genny casing.

If it is an early 8n genny.. it may also have an adjustable brush in the back.

In any case.. check the voltage at the battery before starting.. and again after starting.. then run at 2/3 throttle. If the voltage goes up.. you have a 12v genny... If the voltage goes up.. check voltage at the armature, and see what it reads.. if it reads 6-8v or nothing, shut it down.

You can try to polarize the genny.. however here is where you run into a problem.. the oem 8n gennies were 8-circuit... later gennies on ford tractors were b-circuit... and both polarize differently. If you are not 100% sure of what you have.. you may want to take the genny and regulator in to a rebuild shop and see what they say.

There are a few ways to test your self.. if you feel like getting your vom out.. etc.

For instance.. on a b-circuit genny setup.. the regulator field tab provides voltage to the genny field tab.. so you could remove the field wire at the genny.. and check from the field wire to ground.. if you get voltage.. the regulator at least.. is for a b-circuit system.. I'd still vote on taking it to a rebuild shop as you never know what you may have.

Jim cox will be able to give you more info.

Soundguy

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souNdguy

05-12-2004 06:49:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Charging system? in reply to Adam, 05-12-2004 06:42:09  
There are 12v generators.. from later tractors.. and there are 'stealth' 12v generators.. which are oem 6v gennies that have been re-worked by wizards like Jim Cox.. to kick out 12v. However.. gennies can be run positive or negative ground.. they just need to be polarized what ever way you are using them. Not uncommon to see a shadetree mechanic stick a genny in on negative ground, not knowing the difference.

Could be also that you still have the stock 6v genny.. switched to negative ground.. and just not charging.

Some of the early N gennies had an adjustable 3rd brush.. and if you adjusted them up.. some report they will charge a 12v battery.. I can't confirm that as I havn't seen it myself.. just what I hear reported.

It will be easy to do a voltage check on your system, and see if it is charging above 12.. at 12 or below.

If the battery is 12v.. and it is a 6v genny.. the cutout in the regulator won't be opening.

Any idea specifically what type of genny you have?

Some of the early 8ns also had an adjustable 3rd brush genny.. but also with an exposed field tap, for use with a regulator.. depending on what you specifically have.. there are a few ways to test it.

Soundguy

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Dave

05-11-2004 21:17:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Charging system? in reply to Adam, 05-11-2004 18:50:47  
If you're talking about the battery cables then it won't charge if they are not attached properly. As a matter of fact it might short out. Like the other post said you should be able to tell if you're running an altenator or generator and that will indicate whether it is 12 or 6. Good luck.



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