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What voltage is on coil terminal on a 1940 9N tra

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Ron

06-01-2004 09:26:20




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I have a 1940 9N tractor and I have no spark on the plugs or at the dist. cap. Its wired for 6volts and I see 6 volts at the ign. switch and with switch on 6 volts thru switch to the terminal block under the dash then it goes thru what looks like a resistor (LOOKS LIKE A WIRE SPRING) then to the coil on the dist. which is mounted under the water pump right below the fan blade. NOW MY question is at that terminal on the coil with ign. ON I only see 2.2 volts to ground with a multimeter on that coil terminal. Bat. is strong and it turns over normal. Could it be bad points or a bad coil? Also is 2.2 volts on the coil at the terminal normal?
Thanks
Ron P.S. I was on the nseries web site and got those wiring digrams which are great.

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Ron

06-01-2004 10:52:29




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 Re: What voltage is on coil terminal on a 1940 9N in reply to Ron, 06-01-2004 09:26:20  
Dell & Bob Thanks for your advice. I think I'll rewire the Ign and charging ckts and convert it to 12 volts as I did my two Case VAC tractors last year which solved my had starting problems esp. in the winter. Now correct me if Iam wrong but I'll use a Delco SI 10 alt. Bat. from alt. thru ammeter to the common ter. on the bottem of the terminal block. then from there to Ign. " On Off" switch to the right side of the terminal block (under the dash)thru "Original Ballast Res." on the terminal block. (BY THE WAY WHAT SHOULD THAT OHMAGE READ HOW MANY OHMS?) then to the additional ballast resistor which I think is 1.6 ohms to drop it down to 6 volts to the top of the front mounted square coil. When I got this tractor The fellow befor had taken off the Generator and put a SI-10 alt. on it but had the additional ballast res. hooked up in series from the Bat. ter. of the alt. to the terminal block which I think was wrong He had a 6 volt bat. in it thinking that he was cutting the charging voltage in half to 6 volts. The poor fellow passed away last year and his wife asked me if I was interested in the Ford so thats how I ended up with it. I would like to keep it and if I get her running it would be a nice addtion to the rest of my tractors. The only Ford I ever had HaHa. My others are (JD-B) (JD-M) (JD-40 Crawler) (Territrac-GT-30) (Oliver OC-3) (Cletrac HG-68) Two ( Case VAC's) (Case -VAI) and now the 9N. Even my wife likes it so if I get her running maybe she will drive it in the shows. ( GOTA KEEP HER HAPPY!)
THANKS Again
Ron (Eastern Pa)

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Dell (WA)

06-01-2004 14:03:57




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 Re: Re: What voltage is on coil terminal on a 194 in reply to Ron, 06-01-2004 10:52:29  
Ron..... ...with as many old iron as you quote, you should beable to use Bob's recommended linkage to nseries wiring and understand it.

Couple of points. The "infamous ballast resistor" is a temperature controlled variable resistor. (that is why it is called a ballast resistor) When COLD its internal resistance is about 0.5-0.7 ohms for hotter sparkies at startup; and as it internally heats up, (takes about 2 minutes) it automagically changes resistance to 1.4-1.7 ohms for normal running. (even iff'n the outside temperature is below freezing or 100*)

Too many ill-informed shadetree mechanics "by-pass" the MANDATORY ballast resistor for hotter sparkies and eazier starting. Well guess what? within about 1 hr you have OVERHEATED yer squarecan ignition coil and melted its insulative tars and shorted out the primary coil winding and endup with permanently weak sparkies that will "cure" themselves overnite. (for just about 1 hr of running time the next day)

Unless you have a LAB-GRADE ohmmeter$$$, you CANNOT accurately measure your ballast resistor's resistance. (its a technical thing) But even the cheapest voltmeter can accurately measure the change in coil voltage that the ballast resistor effects.

2nd point. You MUST ISOLATE your switched alternator EXCITE from your switched ignition coil run circuit. GeneralMotors Chevy uses an idiot light to stop the alternator from BACKFEEDING internal alternator volts to the ignition coil. I know of 7-ways to stop this backfeeding 'cuz iff'n you don't, you won't beable to turn yer engine OFF.

3rd point. The OEM 6 volt squarecan ignition coil requires the "infamous ballast resistor". And iff'n you want, you can run yer OEM 6 volt coil on 12 volts by connecting BOTH the "infamous ballast resistor" and a 12 to 6 volt converting resistor (1.6 ohm chrysler resistor) in SERIES like flashlight batteries.

4th point. NO MATTER how many resistors yer coil has from the ignition switch. You still NEED somesort of isolation scheme (resistance) between the alternator and the ignition switch. Otherwize you can't turner off.

I really feel sorry for yer ol'timer acquaintance for NOT UNDERSTANDING the simple conversion techniques needed for his ol' N-tractor, and yet I'll bet he was quite proud of his "conversion"..... ...respectfully, Dell a 12 volt advocate for the right reason

That said, much to the annoyance of my teenage son, I haven't found the right reason to convert my eazy starting 6 volt 52 8N, and I know how to do it right, the 1st time.

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Bob

06-01-2004 11:08:14




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 Re: Re: What voltage is on coil terminal on a 194 in reply to Ron, 06-01-2004 10:52:29  
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Dell (WA)

06-01-2004 10:27:44




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 Re: What voltage is on coil terminal on a 1940 9N in reply to Ron, 06-01-2004 09:26:20  
Ron..... ..the 1-terminal squarecan OEM 6 volt frontmount ignition coil should read about 3 volts with respect to ground with points closed. More than 3.5 volts ya gotts points problems. Less than 2.5 volts ya probably gotts ignition switch problems.

2.2 volts at the coil terminal is TOO LOW and will result in weak sparkie's, hard starting, and missing.

And yes, yer coil spring thing is the "infamous ballast resistor", it usually fails like lightbulb, works or doesn't work. And while it is conceivable that the ballast resistor has increased its resistance (which is VERY DIFFICULT to measure, its a technical thing), its very eazy to measure the resultant resistance change as voltage at the coil terminal (with points closed). Iff'n you read 6.3 battery volts, yer points are open.

Remember the 6 volts MANTRA: "keep'em clean, bright, and tight"..... ....respectfully, Dell

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Bob

06-01-2004 10:00:40




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 Re: What voltage is on coil terminal on a 1940 9N in reply to Ron, 06-01-2004 09:26:20  
Check the voltage leaving your ignition switch, going to the resistor. It should be close to battery voltage. Low voltage here could indicate a bad switch.

If the voltage is good up to the switch side of the resistor, and drops across the resistor, you have a bad coil that is partially shorted and drawing too much current, or a weak resistor.



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Upper Peninsula, Mi.

06-01-2004 09:54:31




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 Re: What voltage is on coil terminal on a 1940 9N in reply to Ron, 06-01-2004 09:26:20  
Ron, I'm by far an expert on electrical, but do have two 9N's and experienced similar problems. You should be receiving about 3.5 volts after the resister and at the top of the coil. Having 2.2 volts indicates a problem from the hook up to and thru the resister to the coil. What I do is first clean all the connections, nice & bright and tight. Normally this solves the problem. If not then consider replacing the resister, they don't last forever. If at this point you don't have any spark at all to the plugs, then check the little springy thing on the bottom of the coil and carefully stretch it to make better contact. Be careful and don't break it, or it's a new coil. While your at it take off the front mount distributor and either clean and regap the points or replace the points and condenser. Gap 15/1000's. If this doesn't help, then post your findings and someone more familiar with this than I will assist. Probably the Gru and most respected expert of these tractors, Dell.

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Mike Case

06-01-2004 17:06:44




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 Re: Re: What voltage is on coil terminal on a 194 in reply to Upper Peninsula, Mi. , 06-01-2004 09:54:31  
I just bought a 1941 9N and need to know if it is positive or negative ground....am working to get it to run.....has been setting for a few years...any help would be appreciated..I live in the upper pennisula of Michigan also....bessemer area.....thanks Mike



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roger '40 9n

06-01-2004 17:33:12




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 Re: Re: Re: What voltage is on coil terminal on a in reply to Mike Case, 06-01-2004 17:06:44  
Your 9n came from the factory 6 volt positive ground. If it has been converted to 12 volts with an alternator it would be negative ground. If it has a 12 volt generator it could be either positive or negative ground.

Roger in Michigan



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