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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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rod bearing shims

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Rick

06-15-2004 12:11:20




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I have a 2n tractor and tore down the engine and found shims between the rod caps and rods where the bolts are not in the bearing area or crankshaft area? Why are they there? Without them the torqued down rod caps using plastigauge checks good, 2 to 3 thousands clearance. Why do I need the shims? But without the shims I cannot turn the engine over? Any ideas? Rick




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ZANE

06-15-2004 19:04:13




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 Re: rod bearing shims in reply to Rick, 06-15-2004 12:11:20  
You should take the rods to an automotive machine shop and have them all resized and re-bushed. Don't put it back up that way!

A good machinest can resize rods with the wrong numners on them. Just be sure to mark them plainly for the next man. I use punch marks on both the rod and the cap to match.

Zane



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John Allgood

06-15-2004 17:46:35




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 Re: rod bearing shims in reply to Rick, 06-15-2004 12:11:20  
Maybe as simple as the last feller bought undersize bearings and didn't need them. Then he took the cheap way out and just put the shims in rather than shelling out the cash for the right ones.



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Jim TN

06-15-2004 17:30:52




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 Re: rod bearing shims in reply to Rick, 06-15-2004 12:11:20  
It is not supposed to have shims. Sounds like the crank is out of round. Leave the nuts finger tight on all four rods and check them one at a time tighting up. Also get a mike or someone with a mike or good caliper and check your bearing journals for roundness.



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Rob

06-15-2004 14:35:18




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 Re: rod bearing shims in reply to Rick, 06-15-2004 12:11:20  
The shims are there because it won't turn without em!


Oh boy, you asked for that. Try turning it one rod then two rods then three rods and see if you can figure if there's something odd about only one rod. Might be in backwards.
I had a rebuilt engine that wouldn't turn over towed at 45mph. 5 of the six rods were in backwards.



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Steve(OR)

06-15-2004 15:06:09




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 Re: Re: rod bearing shims in reply to Rob, 06-15-2004 14:35:18  
How do you put a rod in backwards? Aren't they symmetrical? I've never opened up an N engine and don't plan to anytime soon. Just curious.



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Rob

06-15-2004 17:46:49




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 Re: Re: Re: rod bearing shims in reply to Steve(OR), 06-15-2004 15:06:09  
I'll take Joe's word for what the deal is. Makes sense to me. What I do know from experience is that you had otta better mark those rods and caps so you get em back in just like they came out.
They have mfr stampings that I seem to indicate proper orientation. Seems like I remember a bunch of diamonds or asterics and logos or such on one end of the rod and one end of the cap. All that stuff should be on the same side of each rod and cap with repect to the block. I mark them to get them back with the same piston in the same cylinder in the same front-to-back. That might be overkill but it doesn't hurt so I do it.
The guy that made the top post probably needs to study his rods and caps to determine if any are swapped or reversed. If he can find a combination that lets the crank turn he might be just ok but I'd want to have a pretty good idea what took place to require those shims. Those mfr marks might be the clue.

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Joe (IN)

06-15-2004 16:24:39




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 Re: Re: Re: rod bearing shims in reply to Steve(OR), 06-15-2004 15:06:09  
Yes, they're symmetrical, but because they are castings, each rod is slightly different. The big end of the rod is sized and machined with it's cap in place and the bolts torqued. After this process, they are a matched pair with a designated orientation. If you swap rod caps with a different rod or even put a cap on backwards, you have interfered with the matched and machined surfaces and it will almost certainly bind when you try to turn it.

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Ed S. (IL)

06-15-2004 18:20:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: rod bearing shims in reply to Joe (IN), 06-15-2004 16:24:39  
My machinist told me the rod caps in my engine were swapped between #2 and #3 rods - he was amazed that A) it even ran at all, and B) it ran for so long without tearing itself apart (actually there was minimal abnormal wear - they just happened to be close enough dimensionally that it worked okay). He estimated the last rebuild happened in 1973 (going by the date stamped in the old bearings).

es

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