Conflicting opinions

Can cast iron cylinder sleeves be bored to .010 or .020 over?

I’m in the process of deciding how extensive of an engine overhaul I need to do on the Jubilee project tractor I got. The I&T FO-19 manual says that the preferred engine overhaul is to bore the cylinder sleeve and use oversize pistons and rings unless the cylinder wall is scared badly (which they are not). I’ve talked to two machinists that said they can bore the sleeve, no problem. I just talked to a guy that runs a local tractor repair shop and sells parts (I actually enquired about prices on parts) and he said you should never bore a sleeve and that you were asking for trouble if you did. I mentioned to him what the FO-19 shop manual said and he said that the I&T stood for idiots and trainees. I don’t know if he was referring to the writers of the I&T manual or the users of the manuals. I suppose I may be a trainee but I don’t consider myself an idiot (although other may). In fact, I think the I&T shop manuals are a good resource of information.

I borrowed a digital caliper and tried to measure the cylinder walls but the caliper did not protrude far enough into the cylinder to get a good measurement. I was only measuring the top edge above the top ring ware ridge (which measured original factory specs). I don’t know where I could borrow a bore-gauge, which is what I believe the machinists use.

When I had horses I learned that if you ask 10 different horse trainers the same question you would most likely get 10 different answers. I suppose the same logic applies to tractor mechanics.

Thanks for any advice. Rick H. Ga.

Their is a tool that you can use to drive the sleeves out of the bore with. It is best to have the crankshaft removed to insure that you don't damage the journals by striking them. You could have a machine shop fabricate one by turning a piece of round stock just a little larger than the bore of the cylinders. First turn a piece of stock of about 3/4" to about .020" smaller than the bore, then turn half of the blank to about .020" smaller than the bore of the sleeves. Cut about 3/4" from each side of the turned driver so that it will go into the bottom of the sleeve if the crankshaft is still in the engine and with a 10 or 12 lb hammer and a large drift against the tool drive them out the top of the cylinder. Or you can do it the hard way and fabricate a threaded thingy to straddle the top of the cylinder and use it to crank the sleeve out. Not recommended by me!

If it is the thin cast iron .040 sleeve the best way to remove them is to use a cutting torch or heating torch to heat a portion of the sleeve from top to bottom red hot and then allow to cool to room temperature and then the sleeve will almost fall out. This will not damage the cylinder wall as long as you don’t cut through the sleeve and heat the cylinder wall.

If you are a pretty good welder their is an easier way to get the old sleeves out. Lay the block on it's side and with a 6011 1/8" rod run a cold bead from the bottom of each sleeve to the top. Do this about 3 times in each sleeve and allow them to cool to the touch. You can then either pull them out with your hand or catch the bottom edge with a large screwdriver and tap them out. Be careful not to weld through the old sleeve. After you get the old sleeves out lightly hone or sand the bore where the heat from the welding may have cooked the carbon to the bore slightly. Don't hone much. The new sleeves must have an interference fit.

Don't try to drive the new sleeves in with the tool that you fabricated to pull them out with as that tool will split the sleeves when you try to drive them back in.

You can take a piece of flat plate of at least 1/2" thick and that will completely cover the top of the new sleeve plus about 1" or so and drive the new sleeves down till they are even with the deck of the block You will know when they are even with the deck because they won’t go any farther. You can make a better tool to drive the new sleeves by finding an old automobile rear axle that has a flange with the lugs. Drive out the lugs and cut the axle shaft off about 16” long and use it to drive the sleeves home. Works great!
.Some of these N guys will tell you to freeze the sleeves etc but it is not necessary. I have done literally hundreds and I quit that freezing bit years ago. Can't tell the difference.

The heat transfer is so fast that the freezing/heating is quickly defeated when the two parts make physical contact. Waste of time.

Zane

However, I'm GUESSING that new oversize pistons plus the rebore job will cost you double the cost of a set of pistons and sleeves.

Replacing the sleeves and pistons is now the standard run-off-the-mill operation, so it's almost certain it will be the cheaper way to go, by far!

You forgot to mention the cost of the special oversize pistons. Any idea what they cost? It would be interesting to see what the cost of the boring, the pistons, and the rings would actually be, to go that route.

Even if he decides to bore his sleeves, he will be fitting new oversize pistons to his connecting rods, so the wrist pin bushing issue will be the same as if he goes to a new set of standard sleeves and pistons.

The complete piston, ring and sleeve set from THIS site is $179.00. For American made parts, that's tough to beat! Installing the sleeves is an easy DIY job, so he should be able to do it himself, and save spending extra $$$ there.

{{{{{{{{Sleeve & Piston Set - Complete sleeve & piston set for Ford gas tractors 2N, 8N, 9N (1939-1952) with 120 CID, 4 Cylinder, Gas, Flat Head Engines. Made in USA. Contains: sleeves, pistons, piston pins & retainers and rings. When ordering, specify in 'Comments' section of order form: #1. 3 or 4 Ring Pistons; #2. Sleeve Thickness (.040 or .090). Made in USA (Made in the U.S.A.) (Part No: 8N-PK) $179.00}}}}}}}}