Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
:

OT - 180 Degree - Tree Pull

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Adam Paul

08-25-2004 20:27:43




Report to Moderator

third party image

Hey guys, I"m looking for some thoughts on this one... I have to cut a tree near my house. A big 60 foot oak... I hate to do it, but it"s on its last legs, and the falling branches are doing a number on the roof. I"ve had a lot of experiance pulling larger larger trees, mostly 70 foot GA pines. When I use the term "pull", really what I"m doing is tentioning the tree up, making my relief cut, increasing tention a little bit, then making my final cut. I usually do this by way of semi direct pull. The winch cable uses a "bend" tree, so the cable is not straight, and the tree can"t hit my truck... My delemia is, with this tree, there is absolutly NO way I can get the truck to another location... I HAVE to do this by way of a 180 degree turn, using another tree. My question is, what would be the best way to make the 180 with the winch cable. It"s a 1/2 inch thick cable, and I"ll probably use a couple of thousand pounds of tention... I want that cable to have the least amount of resistance making the 180, while still being strong. Should I use a pully in front of the 180 tree, or should I go for maximum strength, and use some sort of track along the back side of the tree?????
The picture I noodled up real quick should help...
Thanks in advance,

third party image Adam Paul

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Rob N VA

08-26-2004 20:24:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - 180 Degree - Tree Pull in reply to Adam Paul, 08-25-2004 20:27:43  
Don"t use metal cable....breaks too easily. Rope is better. If you"re gonna use rope anyway, throw some old towels or blankets over it so if it does snap, the weight of the towels will make it snap to the ground, and not up in the air. Also, watch out for old dead limbs in that old dead tree once you start cutting. You can"t hear them cracking and falling over that chain saw, and sometimes that first cut is enough to make them start falling out of the tree. Hard hats look goofy, but can save your life. If you are gonna cable around that other tree to do your 180 thing, put something inbetween the tree and cable so it dosen"t dig into the tree. Maybe go buy some cheap piece of sheet metal and tack it into the tree so it forms around. I dunno, that was just a thought. Be careful man! Good luck!-----Rob

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
BillM (OH)

08-26-2004 20:05:08




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - 180 Degree - Tree Pull in reply to Adam Paul, 08-25-2004 20:27:43  
I have done this several times -- I always used doubled or tripled polypropylene rope around the back of the (bigger & healthy) bend tree, another person in the truck to keep tension up as tree starts down (winch isn't fast enough), hook on the tree to be felled more than halfway up (higher is better) and make sure you know how to cut and fell a tree professionally. That said, hollow/dead center can be a problem, tree far enough away from house if it splits and kicks back, NO WIND, etc., etc. Only problem I ever had was with a small (8" or so) tree that I did not think was worth the bother to hook high -- just reached up and hooked it up.... tree jumped off the stump and stood there vertically looking at us for a long few seconds, before it decided to go where we wanted it to....scary. If you do use a snatch block, make damn sure it doesn't break loose. Good luck.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Duner Wi

08-26-2004 18:42:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - 180 Degree - Tree Pull in reply to Adam Paul, 08-25-2004 20:27:43  
If I were doing this as you describe I would attach 200LB. to the cable mid point between the tree to be felled and the snatch block. This is a big help if the truck driver/winch operator does not have a good feel for what is about to happen and how much pressure to appy. The next thing I would have the cable 30 feet up a 60 ft. tree.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ozbo

08-26-2004 18:33:33




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - 180 Degree - Tree Pull in reply to Adam Paul, 08-25-2004 20:27:43  
Upper peninsula has the best advice. Use at least two ropes or cables and come alongs. Keep the tension tight and make the good "V" cut on the felling side. Go two to three inches above this on the other side and watch'er fall where you wanted it to.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
WI Craig

08-26-2004 16:47:14




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - 180 Degree - Tree Pull in reply to Adam Paul, 08-25-2004 20:27:43  
Just last weekend, 3 friends that are tree climbers(not huggers) came and helped me(they did most of the work) take out 10 oak trees close to my 2 houses and pole building. (Oak wilt) I was too worried to do it myself. As I always heard, If there was not bad luck, I wouldn't have any luck at all. Trees can do funny things when cutting gets a going. Twist, come back at you or even break 15' up. The one thing I noticed is they didn't use a cable but a large diameter rope with plenty of flex. They ran the rope through the upper part of the tree and tied it off at the base. They put every tree within a foot of where it was meant to go. Ifn you don't have friends that can help you out get some estimates from local expets, they have insurance. If not, move all vehicules and people. Good luck and stay safe. Wi Craig

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
WI Craig

08-26-2004 16:46:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - 180 Degree - Tree Pull in reply to Adam Paul, 08-25-2004 20:27:43  
Just last weekend, 3 friends that are tree climbers(not huggers) came and helped me(they did most of the work) take out 10 oak trees close to my 2 houses and pole building. (Oak wilt) I was too worried to do it myself. As I always heard, If there was not bad luck, I wouldn't have any luck at all. Trees can do funny things when cutting gets a going. Twist, come back at you or even break 15' up. The one thing I noticed is they didn't use a cable but a large diameter rope with plenty of flex. They ran the rope through the upper part of the tree and tied it off at the base. They put every tree within a foot of where it was meant to go. Ifn you don't have friends that can help you out get some estimates from local expets, they have insurance. If not, move all vehicules and people. Good luck and stay safe. Wi Craig

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ZANE

08-26-2004 14:02:10




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - 180 Degree - Tree Pull in reply to Adam Paul, 08-25-2004 20:27:43  
I too have pulled many trees with a winch truck just as you are describing. I would not have the truck anywhere that the tree could reach though just in case it decided to go over sideways.

All the theory is good but you need to consider two other things. One is that you can put too much tension on the trunk of the tree and cause it to split and the truck can go up and back on a slit off if there is too much tension.

The other thing to think about with an old oak tree is that it may be dead in the middle or any other place in the truck and this poses the danger of the tree not hinging over as you might think and with the cable at an angle it is more prone to try to go sideways if there is a lot of rot internally in the trunk. It would be a lot safer if you could somhow rig it to pull directly toward the snatch block.

If there is room to do it I always just park the truck far enough away so that the top of the tree can't reach it and then pull it straight towards the truck after is starts to tilt from the cut on the back side.

The only difference in a "professional" tree cutter and an amature is the "professional" gets paid and may have better insurance.

Zane

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Eric ATL

08-26-2004 11:37:19




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - 180 Degree - Tree Pull in reply to Adam Paul, 08-25-2004 20:27:43  
Adam, the others have used up all the good advice. All I can say is be sure to video tape the event. That way if anything goes wrong you can at least have a chance at the $10,000.00 on Americas Funniest Videos. You have good common sense, use it, and above all BE CAREFUL. If it don"t feel right, don"t do it.
If it didn"t feel right, but you did it anyway, run like hell. I don"t want to be bringing you lunch in the hospital Saturday. Take care, Eric

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Adam Paul

08-26-2004 13:20:18




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - 180 Degree - Tree Pull in reply to Eric ATL, 08-26-2004 11:37:19  
Eric, One thing I"ve learned is to NEVER video tape an event like that!!! You know it"s the camera out there sending out the vibes for an accident!!! Ever notice how dumb things happen when it"s being taped or photo"d???? I have!!! If I do take photos, I"ll do it while everything is stationary... The best advise I got so far as been the term "snatch block" from Cap-N-ID...
I"ll be rigging my pull line high, and using some extra lines lower on the tree to prevent bounce back... Should be OK, even though a second look at the thing makes it seem more like 80 feet....
It looks like this may happen on Sunday, if not next week. One things for sure, it"s a nice opportunity for a nice big chain saw!!!
Adam

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Peanut

08-26-2004 08:23:10




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - 180 Degree - Tree Pull in reply to Adam Paul, 08-25-2004 20:27:43  
While I am sure you want to do this yourself and save the money ...

I would vote for you to pay a professional to fell this tree.

This seems pretty risky to you, your truck, other trees, and certainly your house. What happens when/if you apply too much tension to the cable(s) and the tree base kicks backward toward the house as you make your final cut? I would not want to be the person making that final cut. What happens if a cable breaks? Ever seen the damage/injuries a flailing cable can do?

If you do this yourself, please be VERY CAREFUL. Have people with you watch the cable(s), the tree you are cutting, and the tree you are using to come back 180 degrees.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Upper Peninsula, Mich

08-26-2004 16:38:46




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - 180 Degree - Tree Pull in reply to Peanut, 08-26-2004 08:23:10  
Peanut,My post below I used 3 cables and one of them broke. A slight breeze came up and broke the cable on the right side. I grabbed one end, the wife the other, took some extra cable off the ComeAlong spool and quickly hand tied them together. Saved the day. Some neighbors were watching from their back decks and when I started up the chain saw most of them left their decks and went inside, I suppose to look out a window, when the cable broke the rest of them disapeared. Where are neighbors when you need them most? Obviously not where you need them? What he is doing will work if a breeze doesn't come up, a cable don't break,or the tree for whatever reason doesn't want to fall exactly as planned, but in my estimation not worth the chance of destroying the house in the process, unless he doesn't have much to loose.I use my chain saw almost every week year around, I live in a very large logging area and I'll bet that I couldn't get an experienced logger to come in and do it the way he is proposing. Ron

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Geo in SD

08-26-2004 05:06:27




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - 180 Degree - Tree Pull in reply to Adam Paul, 08-25-2004 20:27:43  
We had an elm about 4ft across at the base die a couple of years ago and we had a tree service take it down. The tree was about 20ft from the house with a flower bed around the base.
The tree guy took it down in a couple of hours and never even put a dent in the lawn. He even sawed the stump off nice and flat so we could put a flower pot on it.
It cost around a couple hundred bucks.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Cap-N-ID

08-25-2004 23:06:31




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - 180 Degree - Tree Pull in reply to Adam Paul, 08-25-2004 20:27:43  
Use the pulley procedure, with the pulley chained to the dead-head tree and the truck off at an angle where there it room to it to drive ahead. The type of pulley you want is called a "snatch block". It opens on the side allowing you to put it on the cable without having to thread the cable all the way through it from the end. On the tree you are bringing down attach the pulling cable to the trunk and up high. 15 or 20 feet or more off the ground. Have one of your buddies that can follow directions give you a hand and use him to drive the pulling rig. Don't hook the pulling rig to a tree and use the wench because when the tree starts to go the cable will slack up faster than the wench can reel it in. Instead, park the truck where there's room for it to drive ahead then hook up you cable, have your buddy put some tension on the cable and stay in the truck, in gear, engine running and the foot brake on to hold the tension. After making your "directing cut" (the wedge cut) in front to help the tree to fall in the correct direction, move around to the back of the tree and start making your felling cut. As the tree begins to lean your buddy should start to move forward to maintain tension on the cable. As the tree falls faster he will have to speed up some to maintain tension. If he doesn't there is the possibility of the tree falling sideways when the cable goes slack and some of the branches striking the house. He should maintain good tension all the way to the ground. This will keep the tree butt from jumping back when it breaks loose from the stump. (this happens sometimes) As the tree starts to fall while you are making the felling cut continue cutting and keep the cut straight and parallel to the wedge-cut(90 degrees to the direction you wish it to fall to help direct it's path. Using a chain saw with a long bar (18 to 20 inch min) helps in keeping a full width cut. Of course if you are an old timer and happen to have a good sawing partner and a sharp two-man felling saw that won't be a problem (we used to call those saws "Finn fiddles") Depending upon the width of the tree at the base where you are cutting, stop cutting when it becomes obvious the tree is going to go all the way down (usually somewhere around a couple of inches of uncut tree remaining), quickly lay your saw down at the base of the tree and get yourself a good distance away from the tree before it goes completely down. (15 to 20 feet minimum) A good sized tree like that and with large branches is rather unpredictable as to how it's going to bounce when it breaks loose from the stump and hits the ground. (but the continued tension on the cable helps to control it) -- BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL -- and be sure everyone completely understands what your going to do and how, before you start. Most accidents in the woods are caused by carelessness and lack of planning. After the tree is down and cleaned up, square the stump off with your saw and put a bird bath or a planter for flowers on it. Everytime you see it you'll remember what fun it was taking it down.
--Cap--

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Upper Peninsula,Mich

08-25-2004 21:14:07




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - 180 Degree - Tree Pull in reply to Adam Paul, 08-25-2004 20:27:43  
Hi Adam Paul. A 60 ft. tree is pretty good sized, especially right next to your house. If I was to do it and I did one similar to what you show, I would place 3 cables one in the center and two at an angle at each side. All three pulling and guiding the tree to fall in the direction of the 180Deg. tree. Use ComeALongs to tighten up the cables. Cut alittle then retighten them, then repeat the process until it comes down. In absence of a three cable set up, I would contact a couple of tree services for estimates. A good tree service will have it down before you finish breakfast and then take a half hour to grind the stump out. They have insurance and the experience. A two cable system might work pretty good, but I would be very - very- very carefull. Good luck.Ron

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Fessman

08-25-2004 20:44:33




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - 180 Degree - Tree Pull in reply to Adam Paul, 08-25-2004 20:27:43  
My vote is for the pulley in front. Less frictional losses this way. Oh, by the way, I am no expert, and assume no responsibily. Good luck, and take lots of pictures.

Fessman



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy