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A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts

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9N'er

03-03-2001 05:25:01




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I have to resort to using a cutting torch to remove frozen and decayed manifold nuts. Do I need to drain the gas from the tank? I would think that the vapors in a tank pose a greater hazard than a full tank of gas.

I know enough to remove the carburetor, and ensure that no dripping and residual vapors from the line are present. But, I want to ask the experts here so that I can bother you'all with more neophyte questions, rather than this being my last message.

The old saying is true: "measure twice cut once", but in my case: "ask once or twice, think twice, and come back for more." 9N'er

p.s. advice appreciated.

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Sal

03-03-2001 13:21:51




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 Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to 9N'er, 03-03-2001 05:25:01  
Better Safe Than Dead!

I work at a hospital that has a major Burn Center. I work very closely with those folks especialy our Burn Surgeon. We do Great work here and are nationaly known.

BUT, Just take a 15 minute walk through there and get a look at what coud happen with one mistake and you will become a lot more concerned with safety and start to not even think about short-cuts.

The Burn Center folks say the lucky ones are there, the others are dead.

Skin grafts, wound cleaning, a lot of therapy and at least 2-3 years of follow up care...not worth it at all...and for the kids they will follow up til they are 17-19 years of age and most will require several more trips to the Operating Room to correct some problems as their bodies develop.

Nothing good about any of the burns.

Please be safe.

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Dell (WA)

03-03-2001 11:00:02




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 Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to 9N'er, 03-03-2001 05:25:01  
Be sure you re-nut with new 7/16-20 X 5/8 hex BRASS nuts, Ford p/n 33816-S. (standard 7/16 nuts are 11/16) My Boeing design manual recommends 27 ft/lbs torque. The reason to use brass nuts is that the brass will strip first and not strip your steel manifold studs which extend into your water jacket. Then all you have to do is run a cleaning die down your studs and you are good to go. ..... .Dell

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9N'er

03-03-2001 07:22:48




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 Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to 9N'er, 03-03-2001 05:25:01  
I'm going to hang tight for better weather conditions, paint the tractor as planned and just go forward in logical sequence. I was planning to remove the tank for painting anyhow, I think, I'll just do it all at one time, and wait for another day. thanks for the advice. 9N'er



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Jim K

03-03-2001 06:57:19




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 Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to 9N'er, 03-03-2001 05:25:01  
When in doubt take the tank out, Cause you only get one chance to screw it up.
Jim K



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dae#1

03-03-2001 06:42:15




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 Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to 9N'er, 03-03-2001 05:25:01  
If your not comfortable with useing a torch with gas/vapors you could drain the tank and then fill it with water,drain,fill ....till all the vapors are gone,then when the job is done, pour in a bunch of dry gas,slosh it around, drain and then fill with gas.

later,dave



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Or.....dave#1

03-03-2001 11:27:22




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 Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to dae#1, 03-03-2001 06:42:15  
Or..You might try filling the tank with peanut butter !

Unless Al thinks "Peanut butter" might be corrosive ??

ROFL, I kill me!

later"Belch"dave



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Al English

03-03-2001 13:51:18




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 Re: Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to Or.....dave#1, 03-03-2001 11:27:22  
Peanut butter..... that's really funny"Belch"



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dave#1

03-03-2001 14:00:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to Al English, 03-03-2001 13:51:18  
Thanks

Belch,belch


later"Belch"dave



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Ya spelled your name wrong, it's dae@1, belch (ya peanut butter head!)

03-03-2001 14:03:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to dave#1, 03-03-2001 14:00:35  
Is it Friday night?

LOL,
later,tyman,belch



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Tyler (MD)

03-03-2001 11:35:53




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 Re: Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to Or.....dave#1, 03-03-2001 11:27:22  
dave#1 usually makes sure his gas tank is filled with gas before he solders up the holes. :-)

third party image

Happy July 4th,
Tyman



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Al English

03-03-2001 07:51:44




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 Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to dae#1, 03-03-2001 06:42:15  
Hi dae#1(have another beer), Some dry gas is menthanol. If you're fortunate enough to still have the original protective plating inside the tank, a high concentration of menthanol will attack it. So, either use a dry gas that is not menthanol, or don't leave it in the tank any longer than needed to get the job done.

I'm always doing something that's questionable or a little "different". But having seen what a person goes through after being burned, I wouldn't take any chances. It takes a lot longer to recover(if you do) than it takes to remove the tank...Al English

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dae#1

03-03-2001 10:49:46




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 Re: Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to Al English, 03-03-2001 07:51:44  
" or don't leave it in the tank any longer than needed to get the job done"


"then when the job is done, pour in a bunch of dry gas,slosh it around, drain and then fill with gas."

Am I missing something???,I'm not 100% sure, but I think,I just think,I'll read it again,I'm pretty sure that's kind'a what I said?? ROFL

later"Belch"dave



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Al English

03-03-2001 13:39:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to dae#1, 03-03-2001 10:49:46  
Well dae#1, based on the way you sign your posts I thought you should know to get the tank cleaned out right away, rather than opening another brew first...Al English



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Tyer (MD)

03-03-2001 13:56:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to Al English, 03-03-2001 13:39:41  
I think drinking the gold looking stuff is a way of cleaning out your tank. :-)

third party image third party image third party image third party image

Tyan

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Salmoneye

03-03-2001 07:58:36




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 Re: Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to Al English, 03-03-2001 07:51:44  
Not that I doubt you, but why would Methanol hurt the zinc coating on the inside of the tank?
(at least I thought it was zinc)



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Al English

03-03-2001 09:02:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to Salmoneye, 03-03-2001 07:58:36  
Hi Salmoneye, Before I answer I want you to know you are one of the people who's posts I read even when I'm not interested in the topic.

Fuel tanks are plated with either zinc(mostly older ones) or Terne(which is lead/tin). As you probably know, there are different kinds of alcohol. I don't know the technical reason why, but methanol is corrosive to a wide range of metals and plastics (including Terne and zinc)that can tolerate the other types of alcohol. I never appreciated the full extent of this until I saw a compatibility chart that included methanol. Gasohol is normally 10% alcohol. When it first became available some suppliers were caught using cheaper methanol rather than ethanol. The reason this was an issue was not because of the cost, but rather the fuel system damage it causes even at a 10% concentration, including damage to the protective plating in the fuel tank. Race cars that burn methanol use different materials where possible, but brass parts, zinc alloy carburetor bodies, aluminum fittings, etc. are all corroded by the methanol. Anytime the car will be idle for any length of time, the methanol is flushed out with gasoline.

As you may know non-permanent anti-freeze was methanol. Amazingly it is even mildly corrosive to the steel cans they used to package it in. For about four years I worked for a shop that restored old cars that had aluminum blocks and wet cylinder sleeves which were nickel plated on the water side. When we would encounter an engine with water jackets that were badly etched and corroded, it was always a car that had been in a cold climate in it's early years. Non-permanent anti-freeze also ate up the solder holding the radiator together(Terne plating is basically solder).

I hope I answered the question. In any case it's probably more than anyone really wants to know...Al English

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Salmoneye-Thanks!

03-03-2001 10:41:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to Al English, 03-03-2001 09:02:49  
Thanks for the info Al!
I had just assumed that the warnings about methanol were related to certain plastics and rubber compounds. This is one of the reasons that I looked for a carb rebuild kit with a brass float needle rather than a rubber tipped one.
I have used Methanol in my gas once this winter because it was 48¢ a can at WallyMart.
I will do so no more!
PS I read all your posts too :-)

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i never worry

03-03-2001 08:53:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to Salmoneye, 03-03-2001 07:58:36  
'bout the only thing I can say, is that ethanol hasn't hurt the zinc plating in my tank, and my liver is still functioning too. I think it must be the etching primer stuff that has now coated my innards. Ehtanol, lacquer thiner, even kerosene works goofnuff for me. i'm happy all of the time. If I run out, I just run to NAPA and get another five gallon can and it lasts for a week.



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Ethanol is not a problem, METHANOL is

03-03-2001 09:59:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to i never worry , 03-03-2001 08:53:04  
Check the rambling explination in my previous post. The 10% ethanal used in gasahol is not a problem. However, methanol at concentrations of even lower than 10% will damage the fuel system...Al English



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Be nice if I could spell my own name LOL..dave#1

03-03-2001 06:47:29




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 Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to dae#1, 03-03-2001 06:42:15  
And no coors light today !LOL

later,dave



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Tyler (MD)

03-03-2001 06:57:36




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 Re: Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to Be nice if I could spell my own name LOL..dave#1, 03-03-2001 06:47:29  
Speling was nevr yur gratist atriboot. Rite my freind? :-)

Tyman



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dave#1

03-03-2001 10:54:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to Tyler (MD), 03-03-2001 06:57:36  
You do know that when you come up this summer that the first thing I'm going to do is slap you up the side of your fat head right????

Just wanted to be clear on that my frEInd LOL


later"belch"dave



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Gaspump

03-03-2001 06:38:06




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 Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to 9N'er, 03-03-2001 05:25:01  
Open flame in close proximity to a gasoline tank is a major do not. Never attempt it, remove the tank or find another way.



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John in MI

03-03-2001 05:45:13




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 Re: A question about safety, cutting torches, and frozen manifold nuts in reply to 9N'er, 03-03-2001 05:25:01  
Keep in mind that I think 2 of the nuts are actually studs in the block befor you cut.



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