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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Painting Safety...Hey Ramrod, ISO's can KILL!

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Adam Paul

09-07-2004 22:45:17




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The other day, a topic was started by "Ramrod" regarding his progression from rattle cans. I agree, a lot of good information was shared. One thing I did not notice, and want to call attention to, was the safety issues involved with spraying paint. For the most part we look at the rare occasion of spraying our "N" as a fun filled day. Well, hate put it this way, but that very thought could near kill you. I'm going to take a minute and discuss some of the safety issues.
As one (or you) begin/s to embark on the idea of painting your tractor, you begin looking at the quality of paint... You may first start out at the tractor store looking at some grey or red paint, and consider that as a possibility. Perhaps a little homework on the subject and you realize that the "tractor" paint is synthetic enamel. Known for usually being inexpensive, with the down side being quick to color fade. With all that work going into cleaning and prepping, surely you don't want the color fading. You realize that the next step up in paint is a logical one. You've decided to use decent quality "single stage" automotive acrylic enamel. Single stage referring to no need for a clear coat. Well, you're not going to find that at the tractor store. You find yourself at an auto paint supply place (DuPont, PPG, or NAPA paint [Martin-Senour]) and you begin talking to the paint guy and they do a color match for you. Also, they mention that if you want the paint to dry in a reasonable amount of time, be more chip and gas resistant, and have a real good shine, you should get a "hardener" to add to the paint and thinner. Hardener is a great thing, but it can kill you as it contains ISO's or isocyanates. Breathing or ISO's is VERY, VERY DANGOROUS!!! ISO's can also enter your blood stream through the moisture in your eyes... THEIR IS NO FILTER ELIMANT (on a conventional facemask) that can stop isocyanates from entering your system!!! The only way to prevent them from entering your system is by using a full face "Positive Air Supplied" facemask. This type of facemask uses an oil free (usually turbine) air supply that ports fresh air into the facemask. The facemask is "positive" in that it supplies more air than you can suck in during a deep breath, as well as provide positive bias on the facemask, which will push the ISO's away from the mask, if the fit becomes not perfect. Having a fresh air supply is really really important if you’re going to be using hardeners.
With out the use of a hardener, paint can literally take months to dry, so hardener is a good thing. The down side is, a fresh air system can be expensive. Figure on about $500 or so for a "hobby" setup. I know it sounds discouraging, but well worth the investment....
Even synthetic enamel benefits from hardener, but other than a positive fresh air system; there still is no "safe" way to apply it. So now you have to ask yourself, what should I do? Don't use a hardener or the second (By the way, I'm not recommending second choices) best would be to have a full facemask with at least P95 filters AND paint with a brush, outside upwind of the job at hand. If you don't use a hardener, like I said, it can take months for the paint to fully cure, and a couple of weeks to be at least mildly useable. Much safer though…
All this hardener stuff is a bitter reality, but better hear it now, than in an ambulance or worse...
Adam

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DaveinIowa

09-16-2004 07:36:52




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 Re: Painting Safety...Hey Ramrod, ISO's can KILL! in reply to Adam Paul, 09-07-2004 22:45:17  
Adam, Thanks for the reminder about the hazards of isocyantes. But, here's a question you might be able to answer. Does the hardener do anything else besides speeding the drying process? The reason I ask is because I'm restoring a '52 8N and have had the luxery of doing it over several years. I have a nice heated shop where I can work and leave it until I have the time and interest to take the next step in the process. Plus I have a '53 NAA for workin'. I've just sprayed a coat of rust-inhibiting primer and am going to let it sit an dry until spring. I can do the same thing with the top coat. I can shoot it and let it sit and dry for a couple of months. So, are there any other advantages to using hardner, i.e. gloss, or durability? If not, I'll probably pass on the iso's and let time do it's thing. Thanks.

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Ramrod

09-08-2004 13:48:48




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 Re: Painting Safety...Hey Ramrod, ISO's can KILL! in reply to Adam Paul, 09-07-2004 22:45:17  
Great info, thanks! I plan on torturing my teenager some more and spoiling my grandkids, so I need to be careful. Can a guy rent a breather setup? Can you clear coat the rattle can paint to provide uv/fade resistance? Painting is just way cool, I have always wanted to try it.

Ramrod



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Adam Paul

09-08-2004 14:53:05




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 Re: Painting Safety...Hey Ramrod, ISO's can KILL! in reply to Ramrod, 09-08-2004 13:48:48  
Ramrod, I'm glad you checked in!!!
So far, I haven't been able to find a rental breathing rig... I've seen used rigs on Ebay from time to time, and if you hang out at the paint and bodywork forum (here at ytmag) long enough, you'll learn enough to "make" one (still not recommended)... However, You'd still be better off buying a rig. From what I understand, Harbor Freight is now carrying a fresh air breathing kit. It's normally in the 500 dollar range, and includes a half facemask (mouth nose only). You would have to swap out that mask for a full face breathable (like a modified 3M 7800) and save the half mask for jobs like sandblasting (If you sandblast, you have to be mindful of silicosis). This stuff gets expensive!!! I mention Harbor Freight because I suspect the fresh air rig of there’s will be on sale. It's a new item for them, and I don't picture them flying out the door, as they would hope... Anyway, to answer your last question, "Yes". But, I'm thinking we are only talking about rattle paints. In other words, you've rattled on some red, and now you want to rattle on some clear. The rattle clear will help, but more than anything, the paint must be from the same manufacturer... Also, doing it this way is not a two-stage paint process (basecoat/crearcoat) it's more like a one and a half stage process. In that in essence you’re putting a clear over a single stage paint. There is some redemption to this approach in the world of tractoring. By spraying a single stage (or in your case a rattle can) and letting it dry, and then applying the decals, many restorers find that a layer of CC (clearcoat) tends to flare in the decals to the tractor, and make it look a little more "factory" (depending on the tractor). Given the paint job you are likely to do, I would keep the tractor waxed after your paint fully dries...
Adam

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Ramrod

09-09-2004 08:51:21




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 Re: Painting Safety...Hey Ramrod, ISO's can KILL! in reply to Adam Paul, 09-08-2004 14:53:05  
Well, it's coming down to a repaint, and I'm looking on eBay for full face masks, and there are several to choose from, but now I'm thinking about an air supply. I have three compressors, a large, medium, and small. The medium and small are oil free, can I use them for air supply to the mask? How about the large one, it will certainly be used to paint and sandblast? That would be nice if I could use the same air source for both. It's a seven horse, three cylinder with plenty of capacity for the job.

Thanks,
Ramrod

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Adam Paul

09-09-2004 11:15:23




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 Re: Painting Safety...Hey Ramrod, ISO's can KILL! in reply to Ramrod, 09-09-2004 08:51:21  
Hey Ramod,
Great to see you looking around!!! This is setting a great example for others!!!
OK. Your smaller compressors are still oil based and are NOT considered "breathable air" (contaminants in the tank). My Daddy always said, "If you're going to do something wrong, do it right" The "right" wrong way of doing it is to use a fully oil free DIAPHRAM, tankless compressor, like what's used for airbrushing...
Although, that option usually does not have enough cfm's. In my opinion, a modified high cfm squirrel cage fan, and a built up box and hose rig would be the way to go... I'll keep my eyes open for you, and will post again with some links this evening...
Adam

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clearfield

09-08-2004 07:56:03




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 Re: Painting Safety...Hey Ramrod, ISO's can KILL! in reply to Adam Paul, 09-07-2004 22:45:17  
Group Is there any type of paint that should be used on the engine block do to the heat

clearfield



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Dell (WA)

09-08-2004 09:56:13




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 Re: Painting Safety...Hey Ramrod, ISO's can KILL! in reply to clearfield, 09-08-2004 07:56:03  
Clearfield..... ...just regular automotive paint works well. Thats what they used at the factory 50 yrs ago. Howsomevers, lotta guys like to paint their exhaust manifold with high-temp BBQ BLACK (or whatever color you fancy)..... ...Dell, the 20/20 painter (looks good at 20 ft or 20 mph)



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clearfield

09-08-2004 10:30:58




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 Re: Painting Safety...Hey Ramrod, ISO's can KILL! in reply to Dell (WA), 09-08-2004 09:56:13  
Thanks Thats what I thought I do not think the old engines really get that hot clearfield



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Steve W (NY)

09-08-2004 06:42:37




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 Re: Painting Safety...Hey Ramrod, ISO's can KILL! in reply to Adam Paul, 09-07-2004 22:45:17  
Great Post. I chose to paint my tractors without hardener for this reason. My 2N was painted with Rustoleum Smoke Grey 4 years ago. It still looks great, although it has faded a bit. Luckily, I was able to let it dry for a week before I needed it. I left it in an out building that swelters in the day.

Same thing with my Farmall BN. I used the Farmall 2150 paint, without hardener. Let it sit, and the paint toughens in a week.

No sense being dead with a shiny tractor.

Take Care
Steve

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SteveB(wi)

09-08-2004 06:41:21




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 Re: Painting Safety...Hey Ramrod, ISO's can KILL! in reply to Adam Paul, 09-07-2004 22:45:17  
Just as a note my local Fleet Farm does sell hardner from Valspar that is for the valspar "tractor" enamel I have brushed on parts as I repair items.



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txblu

09-08-2004 06:01:35




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 Re: Painting Safety...Hey Ramrod, ISO's can KILL! in reply to Adam Paul, 09-07-2004 22:45:17  
Think I'll stay with the spray can and keep my treasures under the shed with a coat of wax on em.

Mark



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