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Reverse Electrolysis

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Jeb2N

09-14-2004 12:05:44




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I was just thinking about something. As some of you know, i'm working on restoring 2 different 1948 Long Model A tractors for the company I work for. The tractors used a single external hydraulic cylinder attached to a 1.75" rod to form a cross-shaft for a very simplistic version of a lift. The shaft is keyed and has two removable lift arms. My lift arms were missing but a friend loaned me one of his as a pattern for making a pair.

My question is this: Since his lift arms are original, they are somewhat pitted (very slightly) and are weathered just enough to give an aged look to them. I was just running the idea through my head of dropping my new ones in the electrolysis tank with the polarity reversed and leaving them in there for maybe an hour just to pit the metal slightly and make them also appear aged. It would also be an intersting way to make "forgeries" of new parts and make them appear to be old if one so desired this effect. Just wondering if anybody had ever tried deliberately eroding their parts for aging effects?

Jeb

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Hoot

09-15-2004 07:06:47




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 Re: Reverse Electrolysis in reply to Jeb2N, 09-14-2004 12:05:44  
There are a number of folks who make new flintlock long rifles and the like who want them to look old. They take the shiny new steel parts and boil them in a solution of 1/2 laundry bleach (Chlorox, or whatever)diluted with water for 30 minutes. It makes a surface that looks old and has texture and pitting, then they apply browning solution or rust brown the parts in a humid environment till they look old enough to suit them. I suppose it would work on tractor parts as well...presuming you had a container big enough to boil them in.

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Adam Paul

09-14-2004 14:41:46




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 Re: Reverse Electrolysis in reply to Jeb2N, 09-14-2004 12:05:44  
Jeb, as you"ve been one who"s taught me about this a long time ago, perhaps I can give this to you to think about. Not to point out the obvious but you"ve done this your self many times!!! Just look at the results of your scrap metal (+), and that should give you a good indication...
Adam



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Jeb2N

09-14-2004 15:43:07




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 Re: Reverse Electrolysis in reply to Adam Paul, 09-14-2004 14:41:46  
Hey Adam....

Yeah, I was thinking about that. It's just that all I have is baking soda which slows the process down as opposed to using washing soda. I was also going to only leave the part in ther for about an hour and check on it every 20 mins or so before it got too bad. And besides, it's a home-made new part that I could reproduce without much of a headache, it's 1" thick steel so I wouldn't have to worry about it getting too thin, and after I *whoops!* hooked up my oil pan backwards in the tank many months ago, I discovered that it really did look a lot like the old used parts I was replacing.

Anyway, these things pass through my mind during periods of sleep deprivation/coffee over-saturation, etc!

Carry on!

Jeb

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MikeT

09-14-2004 19:14:01




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 Re: Reverse Electrolysis in reply to Jeb2N, 09-14-2004 15:43:07  
Jeb -

I do LOTS of electrolysis in my buisness. I started out using baking soda and used it for about 2 years. Then I switched to washing soda. Used it for about 6 months, then went back to baking soda. It is a little slower (maybe 10% or less) but I find I get better cleansing action with baking soda.

If your voltage limited, then washing soda might be preferred. In my case, I crank up the voltage to what ever gets me the required amps. I use a 30 amp rated Variacs with a DC rectifier bridge. I only rarely have to crank up the voltage to more than 25 volts. I shoot for 100 milliamps per sq inch of exposed surface.

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Adam Paul

09-14-2004 20:12:38




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 Re: Reverse Electrolysis in reply to MikeT, 09-14-2004 19:14:01  
Mike, your site looks very familiar... But not from here... Just curious, are you into RVing???
AP



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MikeT

09-14-2004 20:51:08




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 Re: Reverse Electrolysis in reply to Adam Paul, 09-14-2004 20:12:38  
Nope - I hate driving long distances with a purple passion. I figure that's why planes and rental car agencies were invented! My sis and B-I-L rv'd all over the country for about 7 years.



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James Spencer

09-14-2004 14:00:25




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 Re: Reverse Electrolysis in reply to Jeb2N, 09-14-2004 12:05:44  
If your a farmer with cattle you can bury them in the manure pile for a few days.
I knew a guy who made original antique branding irons like this and sold them at a profit.



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MikeT

09-14-2004 13:45:04




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 Re: Reverse Electrolysis in reply to Jeb2N, 09-14-2004 12:05:44  
Get some black or brown patina from Hobby Lobby or any place selling stained glass supplies. Brush it on, let set a few seconds, then wipe off.



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Packrat in NH

09-14-2004 13:25:45




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 Re: Reverse Electrolysis in reply to Jeb2N, 09-14-2004 12:05:44  
This definitely falls under the heading of "Kids do not try this at home"...

Several years ago I was restoring a '45 Harley. There were parts that I had scavenged that were chromed. For my project, these needed to be painted. Some of them were already thin and pitted through the chrome and I did not want to risk more damage by sandblasting. I set up a unused glass fish tank (10 Gallon) in my shop and put in about 5 gallons of water. I added a quart of Muriatic Acid to it to turn it into a solution that would transfer electrons more efficiently (Electrolyte ). Then I used a 5 amp battery charger and hooked the Positive terminal to the part (creating an Anode) and the Negative terminal to a large flat piece of steel.(That’s called a Cathode) Upon powering the charger (you have to use DC Current) you could literally watch the chrome come off of the part and collect on the plate.

Of course, it pitted nicely from the rusty areas first and then the clean chrome followed as it was following the current to the plate.

Afterwards a little gentle brass wire wheel cleaning, some body filler here and there, and I workable parts.

It is understood that there are many dangers doing this, i.e. ventilation, full face protection, rubber gloves, copious amounts of fresh water available for rinsing, baking soda to neutralize spills etc. After you are done dissolving as much PH increase from a swimming pool supplier (Wal-Mart, ‘bout a buck a pound) that you can dissolve into the solution will render it environmentally friendly enough for disposal through evaporation.

-Packrat

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gahorn

09-14-2004 17:00:08




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 Re: Reverse Electrolysis in reply to Packrat in NH, 09-14-2004 13:25:45  
Pat, you sure you didn't describe that backwards? Electrons flow from negative to positive. Right?



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Packrat in NH

09-14-2004 19:34:57




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 Re: Reverse Electrolysis in reply to gahorn, 09-14-2004 17:00:08  
I think I have it right, of course I am working from memory here and as Lee Hays the folk singer once said, "the older I get the stranger my mind becomes. "course I don"t always agree with it"

If I am wrong, do me a favor and point me to a website that will set me straight, hate to pass along bad info, of course free advise is alway worth the price!



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Jeff-oh

09-14-2004 13:59:58




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 Re: Reverse Electrolysis in reply to Packrat in NH, 09-14-2004 13:25:45  
Patrick,

You can also use rock salt for you electrolyte. Alot easier than acid.

Jeff.



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Peanut

09-14-2004 12:30:23




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 Yeah but ... in reply to Jeb2N, 09-14-2004 12:05:44  
Not sure what the forgery market is for old looking new parts. ebay might be a good place to sell "antiques" (grin).

What you describe works. I have accidentally done it.



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Jeb2N

09-14-2004 15:35:26




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 Re: Yeah but ... in reply to Peanut, 09-14-2004 12:30:23  
yeah, I accidentally eroded my oil pan. That's how I found out that it gives that same, old, pitted and used look that old cast-iron parts have. Just putting some food for thought out there for you guys. Such as, if you had to make a new part for say, an old plow; this might be a way to make that part "fit in" with the rest of the plow.

After all, we all know that new parts and old parts fight with each other, generally resulting in the new part failing, OR all the old parts conspiring with each other to go bad in succession as one last stand against you replacing old parts ever again!!! Anyway, just thought i'd put this out there and see what y'all felt about stuff like this.

Jeb

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gahorn

09-14-2004 17:04:48




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 Re: Yeah but ... in reply to Jeb2N, 09-14-2004 15:35:26  
In my opinion, Forgeries....are Forgeries....and if deliberately concealed from a subsequent owner...it is Fraud. My 2 cents.



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Jeb2N

09-14-2004 18:05:07




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 Re: Yeah but ... in reply to gahorn, 09-14-2004 17:04:48  
I know, i would never sell anything like that. I just made that comment as a joke...sorry if it came across as otherwise. The only time I would even consider doing something like this for someone else would be if they asked me to do it for them for something on their own personal machine.



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Leemo

09-14-2004 12:21:49




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 Re: Reverse Electrolysis in reply to Jeb2N, 09-14-2004 12:05:44  
Do Whut ??? I can't say that I've ever tried to make any new parts look old. I don't think the idea would ever have occurred to me. Good Luck though.
Later, Lee



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