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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Hard to start

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Pat K

09-15-2004 20:44:18




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Hello, My parents bought some land for their horses a few years back, It came with a (not running) 45 2N. I went through the tractor, rebuilt the electrical/ignition system, carb, cooling system, hydraulic pump, brakes/leaky seals, in other words, everything I thought would give them problems. It ran well, smoked a bit, but they used it for 2 summers. Bush hogging mostly. This past summer, every time they wanted to use it, it wouldn"t start. I live 3 hours away, and when I"d make the trip I could get it going right away. My parents are not mechanically inclined. It really needs to start easy for them. This is where I need advice. It always has cranked over kinda slow. Is this a characteristic of the 6V system? It still has the stock 6V distributor and coil. I"m considering going to a 12V electrical system and electronic ignition but before I lay out that cash, I was wondering if I"m giving up on the 6V system too easily. It could probably use a valve job, and although it doesn"t foul plugs, it does smoke. Could the engine just need to be freshened up? One cyl is at 75 PSI and the rest are 90PSI. Any direction would be appreciated.

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Steve (Magnolia, TX)

09-16-2004 06:12:53




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 Re: Hard to start in reply to Pat K, 09-15-2004 20:44:18  
SouNdguy mentioned copper core plug wires, but I'd also make sure that you've got big 1/0 battery cables on there... and make sure that they're tight and clean (especially where your ground (+) cable connects to the chassis).

Dell had some real good points on the MMO, too...
I'd stay away from converting to 12V, if it was me (and that's just my personal opinion, I don't know as there's any basis to it, I'd just stick with 6V... and my '50 8N is 12V).
I've seen the "12V band-aid" that 313 mentioned (a friend of mine has one on his '55 MF TO-35). If you don't mind driving the 3 hours every couple of weeks to recharge the battery (depending, of course, on your folks' use), that'd work too, I suppose...


HTH
Steve

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souNdguy

09-16-2004 05:25:24




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 Re: Hard to start in reply to Pat K, 09-15-2004 20:44:18  
When you show up to get it running for them.. what does it take? Or does it just start fine?

Like dell says.. stay away from electronic ignition and front mounted 6v N's.. it's real problimatic.. especiallt on a tractor that will set a while and let the battery get low.

Perhaps they need a small 6v charger that can be put on for a few hours befor ethey go to start it.

Also.. those connections need to be clean bright and tight... use good soft fresh copepr core spark plug wires.. and al 437 or ch h12 plugs.. no resistor wires or plugs.

Ensure the points are gapped correctly, etc.

Soundguy

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Pat K

09-16-2004 19:43:08




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 Re: Hard to start in reply to souNdguy, 09-16-2004 05:25:24  
Thanks for the advice, guys. I am making plans to bring it home with me for the winter. Wish I had more than 1/2 acre. It does take me a bit to get started but mostly just care with the choke. The one thing I couldn"t find was a rebuild kit for the carb. It"s a Zenith and the one I finally got seemed like it was for a different carb. The carb wasn"t too bad though, and I restored and coated the tank. I got the tune-up kit/wires (and most other parts) from the local New Holland dealer so I hope it was decent quality. I will plan on the 12V conversion W/O the ignition. And the Marvel oil for sure. Thanks again.

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souNdguy

09-16-2004 20:07:04




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 Re: Hard to start in reply to Pat K, 09-16-2004 19:43:08  
Though.. you may have electric problems.. I'm guessing carb may be plugged. As my main jet got more plugged on my m/s carb.. it got harder and harder to start.. untill I finally had to rebuild it.. very gunked up.

Most likely the carb kit you found was for a tsx 33 or tsx 241.. MS carbs... those zienith replacements were different beasts. Luckilly though.. if you wanted to.. the m/s repro style carbs are for sale everywhere.. even TSC.

Also.. if you bought your wires from the NH dealer.. they are the wrong wires.. they will be resistor/carbon fiber wires.. not copper wires like TSC would sell. Nh only stocks one basic wire type.. and uses it as a 'fits-all'.

Re-build/replace the carb and get the correct wires on there before you even think about doinf a 12v conversion.

There are carb specialty shops on the internet that can get you a rebuild kit if you can find your carb number..

Good luck

Soundguy

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Dell (WA)

09-15-2004 23:31:47




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 Re: Hard to start in reply to Pat K, 09-15-2004 20:44:18  
Pat..... ...to ears used to the whirr of modern 12 volt sewing machine starter motors, the whump-rump of the 6 volt flathead starter is veeery sloooww. Your low engine compression (Ford specs: 90 psi dry) is often bandaided by a conversion to 12 volts for a FASTER turning 6 volt starter motor (no, 12 volts on 6 volt starter doesn't hurt it) and subsequent faster and eazier starting.

For the mechanically challenged, who don't want to do a $1500 engine overhaul for occasional tractor brushoggin' use, a $150 12 volt conversion can be a compelling reason.

And STAYAWAY from electronic ignitions for squarecan frontmount ignition systems.

Engine smoke is NOT VALVES, its rings. Me? I'd at least do a Marvel Mystery Oil treatment ($5 cheap) to make certain your rings are NOT STUCK. Seldom used OLD TRACTORS get sticky rings and loose their compression.

Just add about 1-tablespoon of MMO to each sparkie hole (crank the engine for a couple of strokes to spread MMO around, wait for a day to give the MMO a chance to work before you start the engine) Pour the rest of MMO into the current crankcase oil and run the engine for about 1-hr, then change the oil and filter while HOT. After you change the oil, check your compression again..... ...respectfully, Dell a 12 volt advocate for the right reason

That said, I haven't found the right reason for my easy starting 6 volt 52 8N, and I know how to do it right the 1st time.

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313

09-15-2004 21:18:31




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 Re: Hard to start in reply to Pat K, 09-15-2004 20:44:18  
I have a 9n and the 6 volt system was slow at cranking. I put a 12v battery in it but no charging system. I just hook it up to the charger overnight every so often. I"ve been using it this way for about 5 years and the coil is fine.



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