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9N oil change, leak question

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Pete

09-16-2004 09:52:10




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Hello! Thank you all so much for the great information. I am new to the antique tractor hobby and really welcome all the information I can get. I just purchased last week a 1941 9N that is in pretty good shape. I'm interested in changing all the fluids/filters. Would anyone mind running me through this process? Also, the attachment point for the right (passenger's?) side lower 3-pt arm is leaking where it meets the transmission (Sherman equipped, though I'm unsure how to shift high-low). The nut holding this cover down was very loose and the cover itself has been welded some time in the past. It leaks very heavily. There was also some oil in the cover of the PTO shaft when I removed it, if this could be related. Any ideas where I could get a new cover and related gasket? Is this difficult to remove.

Thank you all again for the information. It's nice to know so many people are interested in 60 year old equipment!

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souNdguy

09-16-2004 10:37:29




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 Re: 9N oil change, leak question in reply to Pete, 09-16-2004 09:52:10  
I'll add one thing to jebs good advice.

On that pto leak... grab the shaft and see if it has and forward/back motion.. or up down motion.

Often the bearing will start to go out and allow up down motion.. and that will cause the seal to fail. Also.. front to back motion ( also from a bad bearing ) will cause the pto shaft to disengage byitself when under load.

Soundguy



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Rob

09-16-2004 10:36:24




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 Re: 9N oil change, leak question in reply to Pete, 09-16-2004 09:52:10  
That leak at the pto shaft. You can get in there and rebuild the shaft seal but you may want to consider replacing the entire shaft assy. OEM was an 1-1/8" 6-splined shaft that fits some old impliments but has to be adapted up to the latest 1-3/8" 6-splined pto standard for most impliments.
You can spend $110, remove 4-bolts, pull out the old shaft and slip in the new shaft, and fix that leak. More or less.
BTW, the transmission is between your knees; the shifter sticks out the top of it along with the starter button. That thing under the seat and behind is the rear end, or 'center housing.' That cover the seat is bolted to is the 'lift cover.'
Run down to the New Holland dealer and get the 8N Operator's Manual, pn SE3729-52-C and also pick up the I&T FO-4 Shop Manual. He'll have oil filters and lots of other stuff for your tractor like gaskets for the plugs and on and on.
Compare prices and quality with Tractor Supply or other farm/ranch store and the internet parts houses.

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Pete

09-16-2004 11:34:01




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 Re: 9N oil change, leak question in reply to Rob, 09-16-2004 10:36:24  
Where would I find one of those upgrade shafts/kits at? What are the best suppliers for parts you've run across?

Thanks again.



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Jeb2N

09-16-2004 10:16:48




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 Re: 9N oil change, leak question in reply to Pete, 09-16-2004 09:52:10  
By the time I get this written, i'm sure 15 other people will have responded but here goes anyway.

Draining engine oil should be fairly obvious...big drain plug at the bottom of the oil pan. Also drain the oil filter cannister and replace the cartridge with a Fram C3 or C3P (beleive there's also a Napa 1010 Gold filter equivalent) while you're in there. I would recommend starting with something like straight 30 weight non-detergent oil, but 10W-30 should also work just fine. For more information, please search the archives on oil as this always seems to spark controversy on which oil to use.

Tranny: Go to NAPA and order a 5-gallon pail of 90-wt Mineral Oil, part number 65-205. This is the original stuff that ford spec'd for the tractor and works much better at preventing leakages in the hydraulic system than the optional MC-134D oil that was spec'd later on. Both can successfully be used in the tractor, but the 134-D is thinner and generally used in colder climates.

Don't forget...there's 3 drain plugs under the tractor for the transmission; two large hex-head plugs (one under the tranny, one about mid way back) and a pipe plug under the diffy. Drain all 3 starting with the pipe plug and working your way forward. Yes, the big hex plug by the gear shift lever is the fill-em-up hole (as Dell would say).

Bad news: the only way to stop the leak around the lift pin is to pull the left-hand axle trumpet. There's a castle nut on the INSIDE of the rear end that holds that thing in there and there's no way to tighten it from the outside. PTO leakage is due to a worn out seal. I would suggest you order a new PTO seal, rear axle trumpet gasket, PTO housing gasket, and the gasket for the lift pin plate and tear into it and git-er-done! Only pull the left hand axle trumpet as that is the side that allows the differential to come out so you can access BOTH castle nuts on the lift pin plates.

By all means, keep asking questions and we'll walk you through this stuff step-by-step. That's why we're here. Congrats on your new toy, er, i mean manly utility machine that you NEED to get some heavy work done....yeah, that's it.

Jeb

1947 2N #9N-299417

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Pete

09-16-2004 11:07:25




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 Re: 9N oil change, leak question in reply to Jeb2N, 09-16-2004 10:16:48  
Thanks to all of you for the quick, quick replies. This "utility machine" isn't going to be doing a huge amount of work other than the occasional plowing of the driveway here in Mid-Michigan. By detergent oil, I'm assuming that's just about any oil that's not synthetic, such as regular automotive-grade 10W-40? The left-hand trumpet (new word learned, thanks) is rather difficult to get off, I take it? I will be getting the recommended manuals this afternoon..that should shed some additional light on it, as well as the PTO rebuild/upgrade mentioned. I assume the coolant used in the radiator is standard, non-aluminum, automotive type? I don't know when this was changed last, but, wow, does it appear to be time. That'll be next on the list, I think. Then after THAT will be trying to figure out how to get the wiring back in order. There's only an ammeter (non-working), a toggle switch to cut power, and a 12 volt battery between how the tractor was built and how it is now. What other gauge did this come with?

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Jeb2N

09-16-2004 13:17:23




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 Re: 9N oil change, leak question in reply to Pete, 09-16-2004 11:07:25  
Hey Pete;

Most multi-weight oils are detergent oils, meaning that they kinda scrub and clean the engine as they lubricate. They also keep the crud in suspension so that more of it gets trapped in the filter and is removed during oil changes. The problem that some see in using this in an old engine is that it has the potential of breaking up the sludge that has built up over the years in the engine....causing leaks where none used to be and floating sludge around clogging up things that need to be open.

You can also get 30 weight HD oil...for High-Detergent. That's what I use in my newly rebuilt motor to keep it clean.

The missing guage is the oil pressure gauge. It went on the right, ammeter on the left. Also, original was 6V, with the starter button in front of the gear shift unless it's an early type with a push button on the dash somewhere. Regular antifreeze is just fine. It's a brass radiator and you won't damage a thing.

The trumpet isn't really difficult to get off. Just awkward as it is so heavy. Just remove the wheel and center disc. Then remove the 11 or so nuts all around the axle where it bolts to the center housing. Have a friend (or two) help you slide the housing straight out. That's all there is to it. The gasket that goes between the two is very thin so soak it in water to allow it to expand and bend without being so fragile.

Jeb

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gahorn

09-16-2004 12:44:06




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 Re: 9N oil change, leak question in reply to Pete, 09-16-2004 11:07:25  
At the risk of starting something.....I surely do advise against 10W40 oils. Virtually all the mfr's have now removed that from their list of approved oils due to the fact that in order to make a 10wt oil perform like a 40 when it's hot ...it takes excessive additive chemistry and makes extraordinarily long molecular chains. This results in an oil that you'd THINK would do really great but which in reality doesn't lubricate well when cold and doesn't stand up well to long term use in heat. If you pick a multi-grade stick with one with closer lower/upper ends such as 10W30. (My personal favorite is a straight wt oil in basic machinery like tractors. Up nawth I'd use SAE 30 and down sou'f I'd use SAE40 on a good runnning tight engine with good oil pressure. A worn, low oil pressure high-miileage machine might do better with straight SAE 50.) Los dos centavos del mio.

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MikeT

09-16-2004 10:37:44




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 Re: 9N oil change, leak question in reply to Jeb2N, 09-16-2004 10:16:48  
Jeb -

I just looked at my FO-4 manual diagram for that lift pin and it looks like there may be a lock washer inside under the castle nut.

I have used a pneumatic air wrench to tighten such bolts by spinning them real fast and prying outward on the bolt at the same time with some kind of a flat tool. Do you recon such might work in this case?



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Jeb2N

09-16-2004 11:17:05




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 Re: 9N oil change, leak question in reply to MikeT, 09-16-2004 10:37:44  
Nope. If I remember correctly, the lift pin is actually made into the plate so you can't spin it from the outside. The big castle nut DOES have a lock washer under it, yes. The second, smaller bolt that goes through the plate keeps the plate from trying to spin and therefore prevents premature loosening of the big castle nut (even though the cotter pin is still in there). Sorry, but there's only one way to tighten that castle nut and it means removing the trumpet. One of my lift pins had been welded, but the leak still remained.

Jeb

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