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9n- cold starter/also work on rear pump

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abjahnke

10-04-2004 23:30:22

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i have a 1940 9n . in i have had it just about a year, so i donot know how every season it will react. so far summer,starts great, once in awhile a touch of choke, spring,there was once it wouldnt start so i put it in the warm garage and it started, now this fall its been in the 40s with some freezing nights, tractor is in non heated garage. i hadnt started it in a week. so i turned on the gas, gave a little choke as usual. it just doesnt seem to fire. so tonight im putting on those magnetic engine heaters and a can of gas isoprohol alcohol in the tank , just so i might be a speck of ice in the line. i cant remember how winter was, all i know we did not need the tractor and blade until warmer weather. but it did start on ocassion when i tested the motor. any suggestion. should i just put one of those engine heaters , that connects to the lower radiator hose which keeps the engine very warm.. i have always gotten a good spark, and it ran perfect , should i pull gas lines and blow them with air. all screens are clean, everything is clean.i pulled the lower airintake hose and a little gas came out but i dont believe it was flooded. any ideas out there. anyhelp would be appreciated. i also have a competent mechanic, that i want to work on my 3pt lift. its getting worse, it used to hold loads and i never overloaded, now when i even have a 2/3 load and drive with it it starts making a clacking noise in the back area, in any gear. that just started. is it possible for a very good car mech , that is semi retired in fixing cars, and now works hydraulic in rebuilding could attempt the hyd, push rod to the yokes and that area. he is really observant. and how much time is involved when it comes to pump removal at worst, or ram ring replacement, what type of rings are the best and longest lasting replacements. as long as everything is smooth. and done right. and again thank you. you people are the best.

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abjahnke

10-07-2004 23:35:10

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Re: 9n- cold starter/also work on rear pump in reply to abjahnke, 10-04-2004 23:30:22

thanks to all for your input, and alot of good input , i found out why my trusty 9n didnt start the other day. as i said it just always fire and then second push of the button along with alittle boost of choke and away it goes, only once did it not start right away. so the other day i just kept thinking of reasons why it didnt go. yes i had the gas turned on, and the ignition switch was turned on. just didnt think i was getting any spark. so as i was doing some chores in my shop, i turned the key, pushed the button and it fired right up. so you know we never give up. since it was started i had to fiddle with every thing to find why it didnt start. so i dont have to think i have a maybe tractor, one of those maybe it will start today , maybe not. i hate that feeling. so first thing i did was wiggle the ignition switch and sure enough it has a dead spot in it. i have now tried different spots. and found one area where it will not fire. so i feel good again. i can usually figure things out, but this one would have been a little harder. i dont really have a lot of testing equipment, so ,its hit or miss for me. but i have been working on doing minor work on my cars and trucks, and saved alot of money that way. along with gratification, that i can do it by myself, or with good help from other people that send good reliable info my way. thanks for your help. my next project is my three point hitch, it lifts, but does not hold up a load unless the pto is ingaged, and when i put it in gear it goes ca-nuck, ca-nuck, ca-nuck as i move, but that noise is not from the tranmission. that i know. its got to be coming from the hydraulic pump. i just dont think i am good enough to do this work, you know ending up with enough parts to build another tractor. i have the good manual, but i just lack the , well you know. thanks again. by the way the noise, ca-nuck, ca-nuck started quitely and within a short while it was loud, it still lifts its just i want everything to work right. do i have to overhaul the whole pump, stretch springs, blow out valves , the whole ball. or do i do one thing at a time, put it together run it and if it works do mess with anything else. or go in and just work it all. and and all help is appreciated, dell and zane where did you git all your know how. and one more question. i have alot of tools. wrenches, welder,grinders compressor, torque wrench.some say i have a good share, is this one of these things i should let someone do, or spend three weeks under my tractor looking up going how the hell do i get this thing back in. thanks everyone

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souNdguy

10-05-2004 04:47:23

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Re: 9n- cold starter/also work on rear pump in reply to abjahnke, 10-04-2004 23:30:22

Like rob said.. for about 150$ you can reseal the pump, get a new cylinder and piston.. all gaskets.. etc.. assuming that the pump itself is in working condition.

I ended up doing my 8n.. did it for less than 100 and that was even putting in a new relief/check valve.. new piston, oring and backup washer.. top/bottom gaskets, pto gasket, and side cover gasket.. new cylinder gaskets as well.. however I re-used the old cylinder and used a brake hone to smooth out the scratches in the bore. Hone was 15$ from napa.. and that was included in the less than 100$ price i quoted. Took me 9.5 hours spread over a 3 day weekend to do mine. If I could have done it all in one day.. probably would have taken 8?

If you can lift about 65# you can do it all.. all by yourself.. no special tools... heck.. I used only 1 socket for almost all the bolts... just about everything on the outside is the same size.

Borrow a torque wrench for the job.. there are many things that need to be torqued to a specific ft#.. etc.

Soundguy

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Rob

10-05-2004 03:30:06

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Re: 9n- cold starter/also work on rear pump in reply to abjahnke, 10-04-2004 23:30:22

I resolved most of my cold start concerns by realizing I don't want to run the dang thing under about 20-degrees anyway. It'll warm up some in a couple hours most any day, or tomorrow...or the day after.
I've always been a warm battery guy myself. I warm the battery and my vehicle starts. A 60-watt light bulb and some aluminum-faced insulation works fine. This is Kansas so 0-degrees is pretty cold 'round here. If I know I have to start it and it's going to get really cold I will pull the battery and take it inside. My other cheater is starter fluid because it makes up for less than optimum compression due to worn valves and rings.
On that hydraulic lift well a guy can get busy and do the rebuild before lunch. $100 for a new lift cylinder, set of iron rings, and a couple-few gaskets will put it back to new. You want a cross-hatch pattern honed into the new cylinder to break-in the rings. It's not the end of the world if you don't hone a new cylinder and it might not matter at all but it is how things are done as a matter of course. You need one other part and that is the 'cam follower pin.' It's only a short steel dowel but it gets worn flat on one side.
A guy should spend some time and care making spring adjustments to the lift assy according to the I&T FO-4 Shop manual. You can get that book at most any farm/ranch store or ag dealer for $20-$25. It's worth is to have that book for the pictures of the spring adjustments. An experienced mechanic should be fine working on that lift. He doesn't have to know much about hydraulics either. If you want to run it in the cold you go back in with the light-weight hydraulic fluid to Ford/New Holland M2C-134D. You can get that at the farm/ranch store or even WalMart; 5gals.
If you are on a tight budget a guy can forget the shop manual, hope the adjustments are ok, and just get a new piston and oring for $26. Hone the old scored cylinder and reuse it. I reuse the gaskets. Go back with a heavy-weight mild EP Gear Oil, M-4864 A & B. This heavier oil pumps slower in the winter but either fluid is fine according to the book.

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Dell (WA)

10-05-2004 00:47:25

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Re: 9n- cold starter/also work on rear pump in reply to abjahnke, 10-04-2004 23:30:22

abjahnke..... ...Well, sounds like you have haffa-plan. The 6 volt starter sounds SLOOOoooww to ears uses to 12volt whizzer starter motors used on todays sewingmachine motors. Iff'n yer compression is good and your battery charged and you don't FLOOD yer motor, your engine should EAZILY start even in cold weather.

Remember the 6 volt MANTRA: "keep'em clean, bright, and tight". And don't be fer using enny of them tharr wimpy ferrin battery cables. Gittcha some 'arrychested 'merricum made "one-naught" (1/0) thick as yer thumb battery cables.

Every engine starts differently, but as a general rule for N-engines, 1/2 throttle, ignition ON, start cranking 2-puffs AND THEN a quick pull on the springloaded choke gives a squirt of gas and engine should start. Then add a little handchoke for smoother running for about 10 seconds.

Iff'n you pull your choke before you start cranking yer engine, yer gonnna FLOOD your engine. And only sure cure for a flooded engine is to change sparkies. Modern no-lead gasoline leaves invisable deposits on the sparkplugs that prevent the sparkie from sparkleing. Recommend always have a spare dry clean set of AutoLite AL-437 sparkplugs gapped checked (0.025") rite outta the box.

Puttchur magnetic blockheater on your intake manifold for eazier cold starts. It ain't the oil or the water, its the VAPORIZATION of gasoline on cold engine that makes it hard starting. In really cold weather, a "battery heating pad" is a godsend because chemical reaction is slowed down by cold battery.

I wouldn't even bother with enny sort of radiator hose water heater 'cuz mosta yer electrical heat is gonnna excape out the radiator ennyways. (that what radiators are designed to do, you know)

And NO, there is NO block heater made for the freezeplug by the starter motor. There is NO ROOM inside the block water jacket for the blockheater guttz.

Yeah, some iso-proppole "dry-gas" is good thing for 1-time fall fill-up. I also use "stabel" to prevent the modern no-lead gasoline from gumming up the carburator jets with varnish deposits as the gasoline evaporates over time.

And of course, do your annual oil change in the fall, gittz ridda nasty deposits and acids..... .....Dell

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TIMW(PA)

10-05-2004 04:54:08

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Re: 9n- cold starter/also work on rear pump in reply to Dell (WA), 10-05-2004 00:47:25

Like Dell says about the battery in the cold it slows down.....If it is cold and you need to use it and dont have time to warm it, I have a little tip taught to me by my high school physics teacher. crank the engine 3-5 revs. then let it sit for four or five minutes...it feels like an eternity but what that initial draw on the battery does is warm it, and gets the chemical reaction that dell talked about going. then hit it again and it should go....works in the car too. Dont every just keep cranking on a cold battery cause it will die quick. like dell says dont flood the engine cause it all over then HTH Tim

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Jim Cox

10-05-2004 06:52:10

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Re: 9n- cold starter/also work on rear pump in reply to TIMW(PA), 10-05-2004 04:54:08

I hit the headlights for 15 seconds here and there, so the slow revs don't overheat my starter. A starter is an armature rotating inside a magnetic field, just like a GENERATOR. A starter actually generates electricity as it rotates, which opposes the incoming current. A fast spinning starter will usually draw less current than a slow spinning one. That's how people end up replacing both their battery and starter in the winter. It's usually the battery's fault.

It was 47 degrees in Springfield MO when I drove to work at 6 am. Think maybe it's comin?

Jim Cox SW Missouri

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