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What is trespassing?

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valhallareject

10-08-2004 09:09:53




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I was reading some of the earlier posts regarding trespassers and trespassing.....and I have a question. Exactly what constitutes trespassing? I remember when I was but a wee little thing my brother and I would go out way after sundown and chase after the furry little critters of the night to make some extra money for new slot cars for our fancy dangled electric race track. Of course, we always started out on our property (a little over 850 acres) but many was the night we ended up wishing our mom would let us hitch hike so we could get a lift home. That was always the most miserable walk....especially if it decided to rain. Anyway, in those days it didn't seem any of the neighbors cared one way or the other about our nightly excursions because invaribly we would end up running into then at church or the feed mill and mention how we had finally managed to out smart that old coon or wiley old gray fox that lived up on their bluff.....and their response would always be the same....Well, good for you fellars! Never once did we get a "if I ever catch you guys out there I'm gonna shoot ya"....or even a "better not do that anymore". In fact, many was the night the neighbors would call asking if we were going out some night if we would mind keeping an eye out for the old sheep ram or this cow or another that was having a problem. Of course without the luxury of a cell phone they always had to wait till the next morning for our "report"....but I seriously think they were extremely happy to hear what we had to say. And Lord knows they enjoyed our enthusiastic if not inexperienced boyish stories about calling up bobcats and coyotes and mountain lions with our worn out Burham Brothers dyin rabbit fox call. Well....at least THEN we THOUGHT they were mountain lions....although today I'm more inclined to believe they were just slightly amorous boy coons out to get their girlfriend a cheap and easy dinner! At any rate I gueess the question I'm slowly trying to get to is.....what we did back then was clearly trespassing.....yet no one seemed to object or even mind. So....what's changed today? Is it that we don't "like" ATV's?? That we don't like the damage they do? That we object to the people who ride them? Or have we just become so intolerant and possessive that we refuse to allow other people to "trespass" on our lives?

I will forever be grateful for the time I grew up in. Surely there could not have ever been a more "reasonable" era in American history....at least not for us youngsters growing up in a rural lifestyle. What I try to do whenever I get stuck behind some bicyclist riding down the middle of my lane, or run across some "deer in the headlights" lookin stranger standing in the middle of the road out in the pasture, or have to escort some wild-eyed neurotic city dude to the front gate is remember that these people are only trying to find the same thing today that I found all those years ago behind a pieced together headlight and .22 pump rifle.....and thats a little freedom! You can't blame 'em for trying..... it IS a most precious commodity!

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Diverjeff

10-09-2004 14:40:12




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 Re: What is trespassing? in reply to valhallareject, 10-08-2004 09:09:53  
Hey all,

Had to respond. A situation my daddy-in-law told me about. A man and his son were crossing a pasture in their pickup looking for deer in the blackjacks (northwest OK). They were illegally hunting on land posted no trespassing & no hunting. Posts were painted no-hunting purple about every 100 ft. While crossing the pasture, the illegal hunters hit and killed a bull. Illegal hunters sued the landowner and won personal injury and propety damage to their pickup. Landowner got bumpkus. Crazy world sometimes.

Safety & blue skies,

DJ

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jimNCal

10-08-2004 20:52:28




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 Re: What is trespassing? in reply to valhallareject, 10-08-2004 09:09:53  
dig is exactly right. Whem my best friend and I were growing up, we had the run of all we could get to. Now days, respect is NOT taught to the youngsters. To answer the original question, MY place is completely fenced and trespassing means being inside MY boundries without a SPECIFIC invite from me or mine.

jim



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Bonnan Bui

10-08-2004 20:07:29




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 Re: What is trespassing? in reply to valhallareject, 10-08-2004 09:09:53  
Growing up in the 40's and 50's and maybe earlier in America (except fot the War) has got to been the best time ever. Most people all over were reasonable and tolerant; wouldn't trade it for nothing.



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Barry8N

10-08-2004 19:20:04




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 Re: What is trespassing? in reply to valhallareject, 10-08-2004 09:09:53  
I agree on the respect answers, most people today have none. But the biggest difference from the old days is the legal system and the ability of people to sue and take you to the cleaners over nothing. If you let people on your property and they get hurt, even if they do something stupid, you would be surprised at the expense you will incur defending yourself. Therefore it is better to stop the problem before it starts and refuse permission to be on your property.
When I was a kid if you got hurt, it was your fault and your parents didn't sue for your stupidity. But I also remember that when you went to a neighbor's house and misbehaved they lined up all the kids involved and busted our butts! Didn't matter who's kid you were, I can't ever remember it being looked at as abuse and if you complained your parents said do it again if he gets out of hand. It was discipline and I lived through it and think I am a better man for it!

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cargocult

10-08-2004 18:57:05




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 Re: What is trespassing? in reply to valhallareject, 10-08-2004 09:09:53  
third party image

10-4 on the memories!! I, too was raised in the country, still there, but it ain't the same as it was back then! Lawyers are mainly responsible for the current state of affairs! Farmers are scared that folks will sue them, so for insurance reasons, they prohibit folks from tresspassing! And back then everybody knew everybody else, so if crimes were committed, it was obvious who did it! I'm also glad that I was priviledged to be raised in the country, and would hate to be a kid these days! ATVS and JetSkis were unheard of back then! As I live on the water, I feel like JetSkis are a bigger nuisance than ATVs...nothing like an Aquatic Chainsaw outside the window when you are nursing a hangover! Most of the local folks that have ATV's seem to use them for hunting. Oh, well if I ran this country....etc. ;-) CC

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Water Boy in Michigan

10-08-2004 12:52:07




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 Re: What is trespassing? in reply to valhallareject, 10-08-2004 09:09:53  
WOW! did you bring back some memories. I've always said, "I would not trade two lives in the city for the one I had growing up in the country. We raised our kids in a small town in the Thumb of Michigan. Now they live in the city and they now know what I ment.



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Rob

10-08-2004 12:41:53




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 I got a land proud neighbor. in reply to valhallareject, 10-08-2004 09:09:53  
He lives in town but he runs some cattle on his 80-acres. He won't truck no kids or anyone crossing his property for any reason. He will give permission to fish but the ducks are his alone.
He runs, or tries to run, people off my property and he went after my brother one day. He came on to my property to run off my brother. I replaced the gate with barbed wire. He posts signs not only on the road side but on the fence with adjacent property owners. Decades of hunting and fishing several counties and I can't remember ever seeing any post their property like that.
I have run into other land proud farmers. Absolutely no trespassing what so ever. Now the law allows at least to enter land to retrieve downed game but these few land proud individuals typically roar up in their tractor or truck and go to hollering and cussing until you are out of earshot; maybe longer. There is no opportunity for explanation or apology.

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Dan

10-08-2004 11:13:35




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 Re: What is trespassing? in reply to valhallareject, 10-08-2004 09:09:53  
I really would not mind if the locals fished and such on my property. But, I draw the line when they leave trash and empty beer cans scattered all around the pond. It isn't so much about possession with me, I just don't like to go out to my property and look at trash - and I hate picking up someone elses trash even more!

Dan



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Bruce (VA)

10-08-2004 10:35:39




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 Re: What is trespassing? in reply to valhallareject, 10-08-2004 09:09:53  
The short answer to your question is it all depends on your state as well as local laws.....not to mention English common law (unless you live in LA, then you deal with the Napoleonic code....)or specific land use restrictions in a deed. Simply put, if you think you have a problem, or even antcipate a problem, the $100 or so you will pay an attorney will be money will spent. Sometimes you need signs, maybe bilingual, maybe a fence, maybe not; you get the idea. All the responses you have read are no doubt true, given the time, place & specific facts, but each situation is going to be different based upon where you live.

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valhallareject

10-08-2004 10:09:54




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 Re: What is trespassing? in reply to valhallareject, 10-08-2004 09:09:53  
Don't y'all wish instead of singing a song titled D-I-V-O-R-C-E Tammy Wynette would have sung about R-E-S-P-O-N-S-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y!! Holy schmoley.....now THAT would have been a song! Thanks for all the replies!



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txblu

10-08-2004 09:50:05




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 Re: What is trespassing? in reply to valhallareject, 10-08-2004 09:09:53  
State of Texas has an official website where you get to see the law that governs you. Defines "Criminal Trespass".

Basically, if you have land posted (sign) or encircled in a fence, you have the right to restrict intrusion under penalty of law. If you have crops growing, (doesn't need either of the former) you can deal with anyone within 100 ft of your field.

Have real problems in the valley especially (mostly citrus crops in far south Texas) with people stopping on the side of the road and going over to a tree and hauling a bushel or so of fruit off.

Mark

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ericlb

10-08-2004 09:48:35




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 Re: What is trespassing? in reply to valhallareject, 10-08-2004 09:09:53  
well heres my opinion, first, from your article, you show that you have the 1 thing most of todays kids lack, RESPONSIBILITY, on your night outings did you ever use that .22 to shoot up the neibors tractor or livestock? i'll bet you didn't. because as i was raised up, that kind of thing simply wasn't done, atv's , used as originally designed are fine, they were originally designed to cross virtually any land, with as little damage as possible, farmers use them for jobs that are too small for the tractor, but not one to do on foot, now add 1 souped up atv, 1 kid with no sence of respnsibility, and no care for anything or anyone but his own personal pleasure, mix in young parents who dont care where that kid is or what he is up to, and multiply and you have what was discussed on this board. most folks didnt used to mind if a person crossed their property, provided gates were left as they were found, no dammage was done to their holdings, or machinery, ect, now , with kids raised up on video games, by single soccer moms intent on their next conquest, or by dead beat dads, with no more care than where his next pleasure will come from, tresspassing laws have to be enforced in order for a man [or woman] to protect what is his from damage or loss, after all it is HIS or HER property, and they are not required to give ther personal property up for the conveince of the general public, this is too longwinded, i'll shut up, ericlb

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Stan(PA)

10-08-2004 09:44:08




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 Re: What is trespassing? in reply to valhallareject, 10-08-2004 09:09:53  
Had a guy, I had never met before, call and ask about cutting firewood. He came out, I showed him which trees (downed, crooked, ect.) he could cut. This was about 5-6 years ago. He"s in there alot, and I know I don"t need to keep an eye on him. On the other hand, a bunch of older kids got in there with paintball guns, and left trash and cans everywhere. They ain"t welcome, and they are tresspassers. I agree with dig, spoken or unspoken permission. And I"ll add, people just don"t have respect for the land anymore.

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Jeff-oh

10-08-2004 09:41:02




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 Re: What is trespassing? in reply to valhallareject, 10-08-2004 09:09:53  
In an Issue of the Ohio Farm Bureu news a couple of months ago they covered this issue and the land owners responsibility to protect the tresspasser.

This is for Ohio, and I am tring to remember from an article I read a couple of months ago.... i.e. consult your own legal council...

Tresspassing is any uninvited person on your property. Implied consent is given to go prom the public right of way to your front door. i.e. the Jehova Wittnesses are not tresspassing, at least not until you tell then to leave.

There are two levels of tresspassing, incidental and criminal.

Incidental is someone walking the back 40 without permission. Criminal is they know they are tresspassing and mean to do harm... i.e rob, vandalize etc. Thus all the ATV tresspass is the incidental type.

The land owner is libal for injury to the tresspassing party only under certain conditions...

If there is a known hazzard: The landowner must make it safe... i.e. Open Mine shaft or Well, swimming pools etc.

Hazzardous natural dangers need to be posted... ie. clift faces. (little fuzzy here on what I remember.)

Landowner is always libal for booby traps and can face criminal charges for making them... i.e. guns rigger to fire if a door is opened, lion pits, snares, deadfalls etc.

The age of the tresspasser also comes into play, the landowner has a higher resposibility to protect a child tresspasser from danger than an adult. i.e. putting locking covers on grain elevator puwer buttons, and taking the keys out of equipment so the little (i.e. under 18) tykes don't go joy riding on the N and roll the thing and kill themselves.

I don't make them up, Just report it as I see it.

Best cure for tresspassers is good relationships with the neighbors is possible.

Jeff.

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dig

10-08-2004 09:33:19




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 Re: What is trespassing? in reply to valhallareject, 10-08-2004 09:09:53  
Tresspassing is being on someone's property without their permission. When you were a boy and out hunting the mountain lions you had your neighbors (unspoken) permission to be on their land. they knew that if you found something wrong you would fix it or tell them about it, or, fix it and tell them about it. You also didn't cut fences, knock down corn, kill saplings, and all the rest that today's trespassers like to do.

I have had people from large cities tell me that no one lives on my property because there isn't a house on it. No, there isn't a house every 200 feet. But there is a house on my property, you just can't see it from most of the fields and woods.

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