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9n Not Cranking at all

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Idaho

11-04-2004 15:15:46




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Rewired my 9n according to original manual. I cannot get any cranking at all. When checking for power at Solenoid posts, I can only get power reading on the post where the negative battery cable is attached. No power on the post where the starter cable attaches or power at the starter itself. I have a new battery and just had the points replaced and bench timed at a shop for my front mount distributor. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Idaho

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Ramrod

11-05-2004 09:24:03




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 Re: 9n Not Cranking at all in reply to Idaho, 11-04-2004 15:15:46  
Hang in there Karen, Dell don't mean nuttin. The ignition switch sequence should cause the solenoid to click and connect the two large posts together, spinning the starter and the engine. If it's not clicking, then most likely the ignition switch stuff is not providing power to the two small posts on the solenoid to make it click and connect the two large posts and power up the starter motor. You can test by connecting the two small posts with jumpers and forcing it to click. Be careful though, there is a lotta power in that battery, can't really shock you, but can really burn and melt wires and burn up tractors if you are having a real bad day. You can also test by shorting out the two large posts with a large jumper wire like a jumper cable to manually spin the starter, but be really careful. It will run over you if the tractor is not in neutral. Be safe, be careful, be a little scared of the testing process and you'll stay safe.

Ramrod

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Idaho

11-05-2004 09:58:07




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 Re: 9n Not Cranking at all in reply to Ramrod, 11-05-2004 09:24:03  
I know he didn't mean anything. I sent Dell another more detailed explanation of what was happening so he would know why my pantyhose were in a knot. Thanks Karen



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Dell (WA)

11-04-2004 15:24:30




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 Re: 9n Not Cranking at all in reply to Idaho, 11-04-2004 15:15:46  
Idaho..... .....you write..... .."I can only get power reading on the post where the negative battery cable is attached. No power on the post where the starter cable attaches or power at the starter itself"

Why does it surprize you that if the battery power doesn't go THRU the 2-terminal jigglestick interlocked starter SWITCH, your engine doesn't crank?

Why would I suspect a bad 2-terminal starter switch?..... ...respectfully, Dell

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Idaho

11-04-2004 17:39:00




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 Re: 9n Not Cranking at all in reply to Dell (WA), 11-04-2004 15:24:30  
Dell
You wrote..... .."Why does it surprise you that if the battery power doesn't go THRU the 2-terminal jigglestick interlocked starter SWITCH, your engine doesn't crank? Why would I suspect a bad 2-terminal starter switch?" It would surprise me because I am a rookie trying to learn and looking for help. The manner in which you replied indicates to me that you thought my question was extremely silly, and maybe it was to you. Sorry I bothered you. Respectfully,
Karen in Idaho

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Dell (WA)

11-04-2004 19:46:58




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 Re: 9n Not Cranking at all in reply to Idaho, 11-04-2004 17:39:00  
Karen..... ....you did very good in describing your starter electrical problem. You said that you had power going into the starter switch terminal. (I'm not certain how you determined that, but you said so, I believe you) You just failed to LOGICALLY understand that if your starter motor didn't turn over when you pushed on the starter button then there must be something STOPPING the power from going THRU the starter switch. ...ie... a failed 2-terminal starter switch. ...or... the safety interlock jigglestick that pushes on the starter switch.

Now you will have to be your own mechanicing detective. BECAUSE you are dealing with unforgiving battery power that can ARC-WELD, disconnect and "safety" the battery (-) power cable from the starter switch. By safety, I mean secure it in a manner that won't cause it to arc-spark and weld stuff, putta plastic baggy over the metal end of the cable to insulate it. Understand?

Now then disconnect the starter switch to starter motor cable. Just remember which terminal you disconnect from.

Now then you can unbolt the starter switch attaching screws, and remove the starter switch.

Now then you can visually inspect the starter pushbutton jiggle stick (try pushing on the starter button) watch it move? tranny in neutral? The starter button pushes on a 2-pronged right angle relay pivoted lever that pushes on the long jiggle stick that pushes on the starter switch plunger. The jiggle stick pivot rod occasionally comes out of its mounting hole and won't allow the long rod to be pushed.

This is why you have to visually inspect the starter interlock jiggle stick.

My money is still on a "bad" starter switch, p/n 9N-11450-B. Still available at your friendly Ford/New Holland dealer or many of the on-line tractor parts specialists..... ...respectfully, Dell

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Idaho

11-05-2004 08:25:54




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 Re: 9n Not Cranking at all in reply to Dell (WA), 11-04-2004 19:46:58  
Dell..... ....I know you are not a mind reader so let me start over. I knew the points were due for a change but I put it off because of their location. I'm more better with my 8n. My 9n is a backup that needed attention. The spring in the points snapped so the time had come. The generator was not working which I already knew so it went into the shop along with the distributor. I have never benched timed and was afraid to try it. The generator was repaired along with a new cut-out. Time to tackle the electrical. The previous owner had converted to a negative ground and it was a mess. I'm actually surprised it ran at all. I found all the wiring bunched up in an electrical taped ball stuffed between the battery and the dash. In this ball of tape was the wires wrapped around screws which were wrapped with a mile of electrical tape. The ammeter was by-passed as was most of the resister, which had a pound of rust on it. I considered myself lucky it didn't blow up. Got a new ammeter and resister and wiring. Had to order a manual for a diagram. Did the wiring and the resister started smoking. I was sure I had done something wrong. I could not find my error so I went to the archives and found a smoking new resister is normal. End of problem??? Not yet. Battery would not hold a charge. Took battery in for testing and had to buy a new one. Now for the best part. During some decade, the wheel arm support area had been welded back onto the block. Well guess what?? It decided to give me grief during this adventure and started to crack and pull away from the block. I put a jack under the block and off it came!! I didn't know what to do. I couldn't even drag the tractor to the pond and push it in. I ignored it for 2 days then called a welder. He was able to fix it to my surprise so I went back to my adventure. Finally I was ready to crank the engine to test for spark before the hood went back on. Oh yeah, I replaced the plugs and wires also. Well, I got nothing. I was again certain it was my wiring. I used a power tester that looks like an ice pick with a ground clip on the end. That is what I was using to test for power sources. I had power at the generator, cut-out, ignition switch, and resister, but not on the starter switch. The power going to the starter switch was coming from the negative battery cable..... ..I think. I took the battery cable completely off and had no power, but then I wasn't sure if I was supposed to or not. That is when I finally got on this site and asked for help. I couldn't believe one person could have so much bad luck at once, and it all started with a broken point spring. Going to replace the starter switch as per your suggestion. Hopefully this adventure will come to an end. Thanks, Karen

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wow . . . Dell (WA)

11-05-2004 10:42:56




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 Re: 9n Not Cranking at all in reply to Idaho, 11-05-2004 08:25:54  
Karen..... ...thanks for the fuller explaination. I even gotta giggle outta yer laments. (grin) I admire your pluck.

Yes, the testlite innna icepick is more better for lotta electrical testing than a voltmeter. I think I still have my original homemade brakelite bulb with soldered on wires that I used for a tester back in the 50's when voltmeter were $50, now you can buy voltmeters for $10 at your local hardware store, thats about $50c in 50's money. I also have and use a snap-on icepick tester.

BTW, you do know that it is a 2-bolt 15 minute job to remove your 9N's frontmount distributor so you can change the ignition points (gap = 0.015") on your kitchen table, don't you? Just un-snap yer 4-nipple crabcap and letter dangle. The frontmount distributor is driven by an off-set tang scheme and can only be installed 1-way. Just finger start the 2-bolts and then twist the distributor rotor and it'll drop into the camshaft slot. Now tighten distributor mounting bolt and clipper cap back on. Simple, eh? ..... .....Dell, the failing mindreader with CRS

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Russ in SoCal

11-04-2004 21:01:40




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 Jiggle Stick? in reply to Dell (WA), 11-04-2004 19:46:58  
Dell,
Is that the same critter as the 9N 11512 rod or the 11515 lever?
Russ



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Jim K

11-04-2004 19:29:10




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 Re: 9n Not Cranking at all in reply to Idaho, 11-04-2004 17:39:00  
Karen don't mind Dell, He was being friendly and helpful, that's just his style. He likes to answer questions by asking questions. He's trying to get you to figure out the problem for yourself
He is a highly intelligent electrical guru on this site. keep coming back.
Jim K



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