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At wits end!!!

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Alex Dula

03-12-2001 16:02:21




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I posted a help message a month or so ago about my 8N engine during rebuild being so tight I could not turn it over. I have new crank and new std. bearings. I put plasticgage in each main bearing and got readings of .0015 to .001 for the front, .002 for the center, and .001 to .002 for the rear main. As I tighen the bearings I can torque the center and rear to 90 ft-lbs and it turns over easy by grabbing the crank and rotating (pistons are not connected). At 20 ft-lbs it gets hard to turn on the front and at 30 ft-lbs it is hard to turn over with a 3/4" drive. I switched the front and rear bearings and it made no difference. The crank checks out with a caliper at 2.250 for the front and center and 2.252 for the rear. Could the new crank be bent? I have checked the bearings and caps and they look OK. Could the oil pump (front) cap be bent, it was the original? Please any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.
Alex

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God

03-13-2001 08:26:42




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 Re: At wits end!!! in reply to Alex Dula, 03-12-2001 16:02:21  
Put a 10 over bearing in the front and run it.
you dealing with 20 hp at best. dose the crank hang up over a full turn? I would have first put a bore gauge on the journels then purchased a crank to fit.



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Don (NC)

03-13-2001 10:48:34




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 Re: Re: At wits end!!! in reply to God, 03-13-2001 08:26:42  
I'd also put a bore gauge on the piston journals to see if they are still round. Measure them at 45 degree intervals and see if any differences. I had to have mine rebored after experiencing a similar tight engine after rebuild. Could save some time in the long run.



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God

03-13-2001 15:13:40




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 Re: Re: Re: At wits end!!! in reply to Don (NC), 03-13-2001 10:48:34  
The more I think about this it sounds like you the wrong size bearings.



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Al English

03-13-2001 17:15:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: At wits end!!! in reply to God, 03-13-2001 15:13:40  
Well God...If the #1 bearing is the wrong size how would you explain the .001 to .0015 bearing clearance Alex measured with Plasti-gauge? And God, your suggestion to "Put a 10 over bearing in the front and run it. you dealing with 20 hp at best." is not a good idea. It doesn't matter whether the engine has 20 HP or 1000 HP. A tight bearing can spin in any size engine, and cause a lot of damage to both the crank and the block. I would have expected something better from someone of your credentials. Later God...Al English

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God

03-13-2001 18:47:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: At wits end!!! in reply to Al English, 03-13-2001 17:15:00  
Maybe you would suggest Peanut butter??



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LOL......dave#1

03-13-2001 19:53:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: At wits end!!! in reply to God, 03-13-2001 18:47:02  
Hey Al, I see your makeing new friends ! LOL Keep up the good work "Al"

Ya see god, Al uses Peanut butter on a number of things, he claims it will work in place of "Bar oil" on a chain saw, rust proofing on the inside of a gas tank, sealer for sleeves,dry gas,lawn food and many,many more things !

I just don't know what we would do without the great "Al English"! LOL

later"belch"dave ROFL

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Tyler (MD)

03-14-2001 03:27:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: At wits end!!! in reply to LOL......dave#1, 03-13-2001 19:53:37  
Man dae#1, I thought just came to my head (doesn't happen often).

Peanut Butter = Duct Tape = Multi-purpose

Choosy mothers choose Jif.

LOL,
Tyman



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Ed Gooding (VA)

03-14-2001 03:20:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: At wits end!!! in reply to LOL......dave#1, 03-13-2001 19:53:37  
Oh my God, god!!!! Does that mean..... can it be..... ..that peanut butter..... ..is really..... .....MIRACLE GEL????

ROFL..... .....Ed
'52 8N475798



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Al English

03-12-2001 18:19:22




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 Re: At wits end!!! in reply to Alex Dula, 03-12-2001 16:02:21  
Hi Alex;
Frank, Zane, and Claus have all given you some good suggestions. To answer your original question, yes, the crank could be bent. In spite of how strong and massive it appears, more often than not a crankshaft that's been dropped will be bent. You said the crank is new, what condition was the shipping carton in when you got it? The best way to check the crank is mounting it on v-blocks or centers and checking it with a dial indicator. If you have a big enough lathe it could also be done between centers that way. Good luck...Al English

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Frank from Maine

03-12-2001 17:15:11




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 Re: At wits end!!! in reply to Alex Dula, 03-12-2001 16:02:21  
Hi Alex...I think you've got a warped block...probably wouldn't cost that much to have a machine shop check bearing alignment for you.



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ZANE

03-12-2001 16:29:58




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 Re: At wits end!!! in reply to Alex Dula, 03-12-2001 16:02:21  
It is possible that the oil pump front cap have been replaced. I see new ones advertised all the time and one of the first things you learn in building engines is that the main caps from one engine cannot be used on any other engine. I don't know how those manufactures get around this fact but apparently they do something to make them work. I would think that they make the side clearance loose and the bolt holes over size so that the bearing itself will align the crank.

Look closely at the edges of the new main beaings and see if their is any indication that the ends of the bearings have been compressed. You will be able to tell if it has. If this is the case then the main cap is not for that engine originally and to be able to use it you will have to grind some off the side of main cap to let it move over off the side of the main bearing insert.

The only other thing that can be done is to take the engine and main caps to a machine shop that can line bore the block. This will make the main caps fit but is an expensive operation and is to be avoided if possible because when the engine is line bored the seal machining surfaces are then compromised. Usually only a few thousands but sometimes this can cause seal fitting problems in itself.

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Claus

03-12-2001 16:17:24




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 Re: At wits end!!! in reply to Alex Dula, 03-12-2001 16:02:21  
Well, at least you know that it is the front bearing that is giving you trouble. You need to check with Plasitigage the front bearing again. This time check it at 90 deg quadrants. 0, 90, 180 and 270. You will probably see the problem.
Happy Motoring
Claus



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