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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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More HP for tractor pulling

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8N Puller

01-02-2005 12:33:31




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I have to build my engine. Do you have any tricks for HP gains. How much can I bore the block without problems? I dont want to run the sleeves. How about shaving the heads or stroking the crank?




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Jim TN

01-03-2005 17:28:51




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 Re: More HP for tractor pulling in reply to 8N Puller, 01-02-2005 12:33:31  
Larger valves, slightly heavier valve springs, non adjustable light tappets, larger bore, 60 over w/ three ring pistons and reground cam. Merc pistons do not work with 3 3/4" stroke, they would come up short! Sherman made a HC alumn head for the N tractors. A set of custom manifolds with a downdraft carb would help. The exhaust header should be made so that one cyl helps pull the gas from another IAW the firing order.

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topsarg

01-03-2005 05:30:35




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 Re: More HP for tractor pulling in reply to 8N Puller, 01-02-2005 12:33:31  
In its weight class, and with proper hitch setup, the little Ford will definetly hold its own. STOCK!!!!! !!!!



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Dean

01-03-2005 06:26:54




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 Re: More HP for tractor pulling in reply to topsarg, 01-03-2005 05:30:35  
I agree with that. Problem is: Everybody cheats. I have not seen any events lately where everyone pulled pure stock. Too bad. I thought right out-of-the-field pulling was fun. Apparently, it was not exciting enough to draw crowds.

Dean



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8Npuller

01-02-2005 17:01:28




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 Re: More HP for tractor pulling in reply to 8N Puller, 01-02-2005 12:33:31  
Thanks guys for the info. My kids (ages 9 & 13)pulled the 8N in Alabama, Florida, and Georgia last year. They have several trophies, but like all of us they want more power. I used to drag race a Ford 429 but I dont think that it will fit in the N. Iam not looking for 100 hp. but 40 would be nice. Thanks again



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BOB061

01-02-2005 18:03:53




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 Re: More HP for tractor pulling in reply to 8Npuller, 01-02-2005 17:01:28  
It's not a 429 but I have seen an adapter on ebay to install a 4.3 V6 GM in a "N" tractor with the only major mod being the fuel tank. Might have a class problem for pullin but would for sure give power.



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funkyford

01-03-2005 15:14:28




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 Re: More HP for tractor pulling in reply to BOB061, 01-02-2005 18:03:53  
Don't bet on that gas tank being the only mod.



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Dell (WA)

01-02-2005 16:35:37




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 Re: More HP for tractor pulling in reply to 8N Puller, 01-02-2005 12:33:31  
Puller..... ...you obviously don't know or understand the N-Engine and those widely bandied hot-rod terms like boreing and strokeing and milling the head. The N-Engine already has more than enuff power it will spin its tires without the traction adding 3-point plow hitch. The N-Engine is power limited by its very design, (poor breatheing) its designed for torque to pull the plow.

You want cheap power? SUPERCHARGE-ITT with a SMOG-PUMP for the 454 Chevy truck engine. (cheap at the junqueyard) You doubt? Do a google search about "Dirt Cheap Supercharger" by Steven A Richmond. Use the NAA M/S carb so its simple to connect to the smogpump. Bracketts are up to you. Read a good hot-rod book on supercharging, lotta good info.

Right after WW2, the N-Engine was use in 1/4 midget racing with some 60hp or so..... ...Dell

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Leroy

01-03-2005 17:24:03




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 Dell in reply to Dell (WA), 01-02-2005 16:35:37  
What is the reason for the NAA carb? The linkage will not hook up will it? Just use flexible radiator hose from air cleaner to smog pump and also from smog pump to carb, after reading your earlier posts on this am considering it on my 41 9N after I get done overhauling it to give more power on the disc and plow



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Dean

01-02-2005 15:23:34




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 Re: More HP for tractor pulling in reply to 8N Puller, 01-02-2005 12:33:31  
You've got to be kidding! Pulling a flathead N? Well if you must, traction will indeed be your first problem as these machines were designed to be light weight and to hook up for plowing with the innovative draft control system. Can't use draft control when pulling.

Aside from that, most of the hot rodding tricks used for flathead Ford V8s are adaptable as N engines used same bore/stroke as 239 Ford flathead V8 and some parts are interchangeable. Of course hot rodding a flathead is a lost art for the most part. However, as indicated by earlier post, late model Mercury flathead V8s were larger, 259 CI, if memory serves. So might be able to use Merc pistons w/o sleeves.

As previous poster said you will need to increase compression ratio, and flatheads respond better to domed pistons, which were once available as aftermarket retrofit for Ns but I have not been able to find any for over 10 years, than to milling the head. Milling the head on a flathead reduces the transfer area between the valves and the bore limiting power at high RPMs. This is one of the fundamental reasons why all automotive designs and now even lawn mower designs have accepted the OHV design. If you are old enough, you might remember the 1961 or 62 Beach Boy's hit (one of my very favorite car songs) Little Deuce Coupe: "She's been ported and RELIEVED, she's been stroked and bored...." Relieving the block, i.e., grinding into the block between the side valves and the bore was the routine way of increasing transfer area to increase RPM capacity when using high compression heads on a flathead.

Additionally, N engines were designed for 2100 RPMs max and have only three main bearings and a long stroke relative to the bore. The long bore/stroke ratio is good for a torque engine, i.e., industrial applications, but not good for high RPM applications. Nor are the three main bearing design and the small diameter rod and main bearing diameters.

If you really want to pursue this and can compensate for the fundamental flathead defficiencies described above, you will need much more intake capacity. This can be improved by porting the block and intake manifold and installing a much bigger carburetor (stock 801 series??). Problem is: How much can one port the block without hitting water. Unlike Ford flathead V8s, which were commonly hot rodded and the experience base was well known, I know of no one who has attempted to do this with a 4 cylinder N engine. To gain substantial power, you will need much larger intake area and the N has siamesed intake ports (another inherent deficiency when compared to modern designs, but not one relative to most antique tractor designs). Experiment but plan to have several spare blocks on hand as did the innovators in the 30s and 40s.

Having said all this, in the late 1960s I once saw a flathead Ford/Mercury powered dragster flat "blow away" a Chevy 409 (my very favorite classical muscle car engine) powered gas altered even after a substantial handicap for the short wheelbase altered. The flathead mounted the classical 3 Stromberg (97s) intake while the 409 was running Hilborn fuel injection. I was shocked. Clearly, those who knew how to do it could coax substantial power out of flathead engines but no one can overcome the inherent improvements of the OHV design.

For what it's worth, I remain a commmitted 409/Z11 427 (betcha you have never heard of that) fan (absolute favorite car song is Beach Boy's 1962 hit 409). Nevertheless, the carbureted flathead powered dragster simply put the injected 409+ OHV altered on the trailer. Anyone remember the 50s phrase "flatheads forever?"


Dean

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funkyford

01-03-2005 15:31:27




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 Re: More HP for tractor pulling in reply to Dean, 01-02-2005 15:23:34  
the merc had a 3.1875" bore and 4" stroke while the ford was 3.1875 x 3.750 "49-"53 You can easily find up to OS .060 piston and rings for these motors, as was regular practice to over bore. A lot of carb isn"t going to do a thing for you without relieving it as far as the 239 v8"s



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rasputen

01-02-2005 13:00:45




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 Re: More HP for tractor pulling in reply to 8N Puller, 01-02-2005 12:33:31  
I understand the need to push the limits, but traction is where you will fall short. Gotta put some serious weights on it.

I understand some people ran Mercury pistons straight in the bore, but unsure of the exact years/model#'s. I think they were the flat head V8 mercury pistons.

Also you would be better off with domed pistons rather than head shaving since head clearance gets into valve clearance & is limited.
Who knows. maybe you could get a cracked head & a dremel tool & find out how much you can "blueprint" before getting into the water jacket.

Just porting the manifold & block till the casting crud is smoothed out might help. Problem is there are very few 8N pullers cause it just won't pull that much & most of the pullers are up in the heavy classes.

It would still be fun, & if that's what you want to do go forit!!

How much you got to spend?????
If you got enought you can hire Smokey Yanuck to do it.

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Randy R

01-03-2005 06:35:53




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 Re: More HP for tractor pulling in reply to rasputen, 01-02-2005 13:00:45  
Uh, I don"t think so. Smokey died years ago.



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this board has a tractor

01-02-2005 13:26:02




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 Re: More HP for tractor pulling in reply to rasputen, 01-02-2005 13:00:45  
Go there & search the archives.
Maybe you will get some ideas.



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