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8N Idle problem

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Roughstock

02-27-2005 14:54:07




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I have a 48 8n that does not want to idle. I can pull out the big adjustment needle on the far right and it will idle. If I try to set the needle
at the factory setting it will die when throttle is on the bottom. With needle barely screwed in and throttle just about quarter the way up it will run but it lopes.The carb is farely new and I belive it is an aftermarket. I should also say that the lifters or somthing are vary noisy at idle but silent at higher RPM, also I have replaced the manifold gasket and the carb to manifold gasket. Any ideas?????

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Jimmy D

03-01-2005 18:56:49




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Roughstock, 02-27-2005 14:54:07  
Well, I think the work is the right move, because of the noise and knowing how much it could end up costing you if it isn't taken care of now, plus an engine that is loaping is typically a vacuum/intake leak, but you ruled that out when you sprayed the gasket surfaces with no engine idle change. I would bet that you only have to apply a very small amount of choak to compensate for the intake valve being open for less time, pulling in less fuel for that cylinder. I would try this carb adjustment just for grins before sending her to the shop (regardless of response, I would still take care of the valve issue). Turn the main jet adjustment (large screw facing down) 3 full turns out from a lightly seated position, turn the idle mixture screw (small screw facing outward, toward the side)till it is lightly seated. crank her up and VERY slowly turn the idle mixture out to max engine speed at idle. My guess is that the max speed is achieved with the small screw all the way in.

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Roughstock

03-03-2005 18:12:32




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Jimmy D, 03-01-2005 18:56:49  
Jimmy D look at my post tonight for an update on this.



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Roughstock

03-01-2005 19:20:55




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Jimmy D, 03-01-2005 18:56:49  
Your right about the choke only having to be pulled out very little. I will try your adjustments tomorrow but after messing with it as much as I have,I think I've had it in that adjustment already and I think your right again. Thanks and I will let you know how it turns out



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kennettes

03-01-2005 07:02:18




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Roughstock, 02-27-2005 14:54:07  
make sure that you have the governor reconnected properly. I assume that with the the gasket changes that you disconnected the linkages. When you said it was loping, sounds like the gov is giving you fits. Just an idea, sometimes the simple ones help....



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Jimmy D

02-28-2005 16:21:31




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Roughstock, 02-27-2005 14:54:07  
Hey Rough...it just came to me...I kinda feel dumb that I didn't put it together. I THINK your problem is likely related to that noise...as in LIFTER problems. What is your oil pressure like? I would also remove your manifolds before the gasket gets cooked on, so you may be able to reuse. Then remove the side cover that will allow you to view and inspect your valve train. I'll bet you are going to find way TOO MUCH slop in at least one of yer intake valves. I would give this a shot unless someone has a better idea.

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Roughstock

02-28-2005 17:59:59




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Jimmy D, 02-28-2005 16:21:31  
MR. D I will do just that. Someone told me that the lifter was adjustable, is this true? I know the valve is not unless it has been changed out with a newer type. Now, the engine does not miss it lopes, wouldn't it miss if the valve was bad or out of adjustment?



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Jimmy D

03-01-2005 18:21:33




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Roughstock, 02-28-2005 17:59:59  
These flat heads are famous for how well they will run, even with a dead cylinder. An engine loap is very likely for a verry loose intake valve. They are adjustable, you just have to have THIN wrench because the adjustment is on the bottom of the valve spring and a special tappet holding wrench. Hopefully, that is your only issue. The other things it could be are a worn tappet or worn cam lobe which will happen if the valve clearence is left loose for extended time with frequent operation.

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Roughstock

03-01-2005 18:39:44




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Jimmy D, 03-01-2005 18:21:33  
I hope it is just a matter of adjustment. I have a Machine shop here in town that is going to look at it on Friday and they said they would try to adjust the lifters first. If a valve job is needed they will do it for me for 100.00 plus any parts (valves,lifter,etc.) But they said the whole valve job shouldn't be more than 140.00 worst case. Because they are a machine shop and not a repair shop they usually dont take the entire vehicle so I have to put it on a flat bed and remove the hood and manifold for them. I didn't want to have to remove the engine!! Hopefully this will solve the problem. They said the tractor ran very well except for the noise so they think this will do the trick. I will keep you informed and I can't thank you enough.

PS: Let me know your opinion on the up coming work being done

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Jimmy D

02-28-2005 16:14:11




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Roughstock, 02-27-2005 14:54:07  
Hey Rough...no worries...most of the problem posts don't usually cover everything the first time anyway. If choke, slowly applied finds a sweet spot and spraying both intake gasket surfaces do not cause any idle changes, I would really say to do a compression check. The choke may be making up for low compression, but that is a guess for now. You did say the carb was fairly new?



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Tom in MS

02-28-2005 03:45:52




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Roughstock, 02-27-2005 14:54:07  
Did you adjust the idle stop screw on the back of the carb.(next to the engine block)?? If it is set so that it closes all the way when you move the throttle lever all the way down, then it is going to die regardless of where and how the other adjustments are set.



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Jimmy D

02-27-2005 16:18:01




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Roughstock, 02-27-2005 14:54:07  
I understand what Dell is saying and agree, but your description indicated too much fuel, which would not be caused by a manifold leak. That would be just the opposite and chocking would have a positive effect if that were the likely cause. Try this and post back. Turn your fuel OFF and crank yer tractor. Let it run till it shuts down. Does the idle clear up during this time???If yes, then it AINT a leak, you are gettin too much fuel because of float needle and seat not sealing off or sticky float or a couple of other things we will go into if you try this. Post back before you remove the carb, there are about 5 things to look for if you end up going down that road.
HTH-Jimmy

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Roughstock

02-28-2005 16:02:59




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Jimmy D, 02-27-2005 16:18:01  
First of all let me apologize. I went to do the fuel shut off thing and it didn't work so I un hooked the breather again and it didn't work. BUT I tried the choke thing again by setting the adjustments at the proper settings and then starting the tractor I turned the idle screw on the throttle to were it would idle very low then pulling the choke very slow I had it idling so slow I could count the blades. Then I wet the gaskets with WD-40 and it did not change it would die at idle if I did not pull the choke. I also tightend the manifold and carb but still had the problem. Now, this tractor had this problem befor I changed the manifold and carb gaskets. IT had the choke rod bent so it could not go in all the way and the manifold gasket was blown to the point were it sounded like a popping john. Like I said it has a lifter or somthing that is VERY NOISY at idle but quiets down as you increase rpm's. I hope you are not mad for the wrong info last night and I hope you have an idea that can help. THANKS

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Roughstock

02-27-2005 16:33:24




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Jimmy D, 02-27-2005 16:18:01  
Thanks I'll do just that and let you know around
6:30pm central tomorrow. THANK'S A BUNCH



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Dell (WA)

02-27-2005 16:06:10




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Roughstock, 02-27-2005 14:54:07  
Ruffstock..... ....learn to adjust yer carburator. Both Ford and Marvel/Schebler say to adjust both the down-point mainjet and the side-pointing idlemix to 1-turn as a starting point. I just set the DOWN-pointing mainjet to 1-1/2 turns and LEAVITT!!

I then adjust the side-pointing idlemix for maximum idle, NOT SMOOTHEST IDLE, max idle speed. Understand? I then try and adjust the behind carb idlethrottle for a SLOOOoooww 400rpms. I do this dance at least 3-times. Remember, the side-pointing idlemix is BASSKWARDS, out for lean and IN for INRICH. My idlemix usually ends up about 3/8 turn.

You write..... ..."I have a 48 8n that does not want to idle. I have replaced the manifold gasket and the carb to manifold gasket. Any ideas????? " Well strange that you should ask. Does there even seem to be a relationship here? Or am I the only one? Me? I'd gitt some WD-40 and spray all the gaskets real wet. The WD-40 oil will temporairily seal any leaking gasket and when you find yer leak, you should beable to figger out what to do..... ..respectfully, Dell

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Roughstock

02-27-2005 16:16:07




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Dell (WA), 02-27-2005 16:06:10  
I'll try that tomorrow Thanks



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Jimmy D

02-27-2005 16:05:24




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Roughstock, 02-27-2005 14:54:07  
If choking makes it worse, then I think you may be either getting too much fuel or possible weak spark. I would say you reversed your main jet with your economiser jet, but the carb is new and I assume you haven't done anything to the inside? I also assume you have the same prolem with the breather completely off the carb. Do you see any more clues like black smoke or fuel dripping from the carb during idle?

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Roughstock

02-27-2005 16:13:31




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Jimmy D, 02-27-2005 16:05:24  
No drip, no smoke



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souNdguy

02-27-2005 15:56:54




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Roughstock, 02-27-2005 14:54:07  
What's your idlespeed stop screw set at?

Soundguy



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Roughstock

02-27-2005 16:05:25




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to souNdguy, 02-27-2005 15:56:54  
I am not sure what the idle speed adjustment screw is set at. when I got it it was idleing very high so I turned it down. The idle air screw is 1 1/2 to 2 turns



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Jimmy D

02-27-2005 15:45:22




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Roughstock, 02-27-2005 14:54:07  
What does it idle like if you slowly apply the choke? If it gets worse, check your breather to make sure it is not restricted? The main jet adjustment will also cause issues at an idle if it is screwed in too far. Have it a turn and a half to start. Post back with what it does and better feedback will locate the issue.
HTH-Jimmy



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Roughstock

02-27-2005 15:52:42




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 Re: 8N Idle problem in reply to Jimmy D, 02-27-2005 15:45:22  
I cleaned the breather today and also had the hose off and there was no change. I did adjust the
main jet screw just as you described and no change.Also tried it with main screw at several different adjustments and no change.
Pulling the choke makes it worse.



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