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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Lifter noise yes/no??????? Are you there Jimmy D

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Roughstock

03-03-2005 17:21:00




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The other night we came up with the answer to my idle problem and I thought we had it dead to rights. The idea was I had a possible valve problem because I could pull the choke a little and it would idle perfect. Also I have a very noisy lifter or two or three or 8. Anyway today I took it to the machine shop and they said they didnt think it was a lifter noise but had me strip the hood,manifold, and inspection covers anyway to check. After I did all this and turned over the engine I was Sure it was the lifters because I could hear them comming down off the high point on the cam when I would bump the starter. But to my disapointment when I took it back to the machine shop he told me it was not the lifters. Now he wanted me to take every thing on the front of the engine off and dropp the oil pan. Also at this point I told him to check my compression and it was between 112 and 120 psi on all pistons. Before I went home and started stripping everything I thought I would stop by the local N mechanic and ask them they told me it was either a lifter or a valve was hitting the head so I came home and pulled the head and the noise was still there when I turned it over. DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT THIS LOUD TAPPING NOISE MAY BE BEFOR I STRIPP ANYTHING ELSE OFF THIS OTHERWISE GREAT RUNNING TRACTOR???? thanks

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Tymoc

03-03-2005 18:41:19




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 Re: Lifter noise yes/no??????? Are you there Jimmy in reply to Roughstock, 03-03-2005 17:21:00  
I would have someone turn the tractor over while I tried to zero in on the noise with a chunk of garden hose to my ear while moving the other over the engine. Really go over the valves (covers off.) May have broken off a chunk of the lobe and when it hits the lifter its tapping. By the way is this a tapping, rapping or heavy knocking sound. Simple things like a slapping fan belt will fool you.(WD-40 will quiet it) Let us know when you know where the sound is coming from. Try turning it over by hand and if it taps then, you can get a better ID on it.

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Roughstock

03-06-2005 05:56:45




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 Re: Lifter noise yes/no??????? Are you there Jimmy in reply to Tymoc, 03-03-2005 18:41:19  
You told me to let you know when I found the noise, well I think I found it. Look at my lifter noise update posted yesterday and see what you think. Thanks



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Roughstock

03-03-2005 18:51:09




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 Re: Lifter noise yes/no??????? Are you there Jimmy in reply to Tymoc, 03-03-2005 18:41:19  
I did have someone turn it over and the best guess I can come up with is the noise is in the area of the lifters or cam. I removed the fan belt to make sure it was not in it or the water pump, also I removed the govenor and ran it befor I took it apart and the noise was still there.Right now I have the inspect covers,head,fanbelt,and manifold off



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ZANE

03-03-2005 18:28:50




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 Re: Lifter noise yes/no??????? Are you there Jimmy in reply to Roughstock, 03-03-2005 17:21:00  
If you can hear the noise as the engine is cranked it could be that the cam gear is loose on the camshaft or even that the gear itself is loose if it is the bakelite material that the original cam gears were made of. There could also be a lot of slack in the gear teeth if it has the original fiber bakelite material gear. When you mentioned that you can hear it as the cam comes off the high point that is what made me think of the cam gear looseness somehow.

Zane

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Roughstock

03-03-2005 18:39:11




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 Re: Lifter noise yes/no??????? in reply to ZANE, 03-03-2005 18:28:50  
Can I tighten the gear up if its just loose? Also I don't know if this matters but this engine was overhauled befor I bought the tractor about 80 hours ago. THANKS



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ZANE

03-04-2005 15:13:21




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 Re: Lifter noise yes/no??????? in reply to Roughstock, 03-03-2005 18:39:11  
No it can't be tightened. It is a pressed fit to the shaft and once it is loose it takes another gear and maybe even a new shaft to get a good tight press fit. If the gear material is loose on the hub you can just replace the gear.



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Jimmy D

03-03-2005 18:22:12




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 Re: Lifter noise yes/no??????? Are you there Jimmy in reply to Roughstock, 03-03-2005 17:21:00  
Hey Rough, I am working late hours now and just droped in. I hate that you are getting 2 different opinions from local folks. Looks like one of them supports my guess. I need to stress that it is a guess, since I can't be there to actually hear it. Because we are not dealing with over head valves, the sound could be a number of things to include main cranckshaft bearings, piston rod bearings, cam bearings and even possibly a piston wrist pin issue or something I havent thought of.
Does the sound get worse under an engine load or does it quieten down a little? If it quietens a bit, could be crank bearings, if not, likely rod or rod bearings, but I still say check valve train for excessive clearance. I have to stick with that because of the loudness of the noise , as you described and that would account for having to apply a slight amount of choak, due to the intake valve being open for less duration and you would still have good compression, as you do. Anything highr than 90 is good. The actual standard for most piston engines is that the lowest cylinder must be at least 75% of the highest reading.
You also said you removed the head, but still heard the noise??? You can't run the engine with the cylinder head removed or did you mean something else?

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Roughstock

03-03-2005 18:33:53




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 Re: Lifter noise yes/no??????? in reply to Jimmy D, 03-03-2005 18:22:12  
GOOD TO HEAR FROM YOU!!
First the noise does get more quiet under a load and what I meant by hearing the noise after I took the head off is I can hear the tapping while turning the engine over with the starter. I was wondering if I Could remove the lifters without taking the valves off and see if I can hear it then when I turn it over.The guy from the Machine shop seems to think a bolt or somthing is hiting a moving part causing the noise but I think it would have broke or worn down by now. I'm open for ANY suggestions. THANKS

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Jimmy D

03-03-2005 18:48:43




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 Re: Lifter noise yes/no??????? in reply to Roughstock, 03-03-2005 18:33:53  
I would check the cam gear as Zane suggests, because it is the easiest. Sorry to say, no way to disengauge your valve train that I would recommend, but you may be on to something. If the cam gear doesn't produce results, leave the cover off, remove the manifolds and valve train cover beneath the manifolds and crank her over and see if you cant locate the noise. I am making a big assumption when I linked the noise to your idle issue.

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Roughstock

03-03-2005 18:55:02




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 Re: Lifter noise yes/no??????? in reply to Jimmy D, 03-03-2005 18:48:43  
I will check it first thing in the morning, I only work 4 days a week so I have three days to work on it. I'll keep everyone informed



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Roughstock

03-03-2005 17:27:53




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 Re: Lifter noise yes/no??????? Are you there Jimmy in reply to Roughstock, 03-03-2005 17:21:00  
By the way its a 48 8N



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Mr Bill No. Mn.

03-03-2005 19:07:11




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 Re: Lifter noise yes/no??????? Are you there Jimmy in reply to Roughstock, 03-03-2005 17:27:53  
Hi Rough,When I had my engine rebuilt last spring I had lifters clacking before the rebuild. Found out who ever rebuilt the engine before ground the valve stems too much so there was too much clearance between the lifters and the valve stems. Just a thought. Drove me nuts till I found it.-Bill



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Roughstock

03-03-2005 19:15:25




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 Re: Lifter noise yes/no??????? Are you there Jimmy in reply to Mr Bill No. Mn., 03-03-2005 19:07:11  
That is exactly what I thought I would find on this tractor and I'm still not sure I won't. Hopefuly by this time tomorrow I'll find somthing and let you know. My biggest fear right now is the guy at the machine shop just didn't want to mess with it,so he passed the buck. Thanks for the help



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Mr Bill No. Mn.

03-03-2005 22:02:55




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 Re: Lifter noise yes/no??????? Are you there Jimmy in reply to Roughstock, 03-03-2005 19:15:25  
Maybe he doesn`t know what he`s doing as far as thats concerned. I was a machinist by trade but never worked on machining engine parts. Thats why I had mine done. Iknow my lifters rattled real bad. sounded like rocks in a tin can. Hope you find the problem. Good luck-Bill



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