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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Crankshaft front oil seal

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Alan Merkel

03-23-2005 16:56:20




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I'm in the process of changing my 8N crankshaft front oil seal. I've read through the posts on this subject in the archives, but I have a couple questions:
-I supported the front end of the tractor under the engine pan and have removed the hood, radiator, and front axle/wheels assembly. Next I will move the support to under the transmission so I can remove the engine pan. When I do this, do I need to support the engine from above? My FO4 manual shows the engine being rigged for lift, but I think it is because the procedure is for engine removal. Will I damage something if the only support I have is under the transmission when I remove the pan?
- Also, my next step was going to be to remove the timing gear cover because I thought the upper half of the front seal is in the cover. My FO4 manual, however, says the crankshaft has to be removed to replace the upper half of the front and rear seals. If that is true, looks like there is no nead to remove the timing gear cover. Can someone set me straight on this?
Thank you in advance.

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Rob

03-24-2005 06:39:58




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 Re: Crankshaft front oil seal in reply to Alan Merkel, 03-23-2005 16:56:20  
This flathead hotrodder gives good instructions on installing a rope seal. Sure cleared it up for me.



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ZANE

03-24-2005 05:44:17




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 Re: Crankshaft front oil seal in reply to Alan Merkel, 03-23-2005 16:56:20  
The way I used to do it when I was the head cook and bottle washer at the local Ford dealership here in Talladega was to remove the crankshaft with the engine uside down preferably. Did the old seals out of the pan and timing cover. Put the new ones in and use a special tamping tool to seal the seal in the pan and timing cover. (a socket of about the right size can be used to seat the seals) Do not cut the seals. Allow the excess on the ends to remain so that whent he pan is installed it squeezes the seals tight. Oil the seals good and then drop the crankshaft in place and bolt it down. Install all the rods etc and with the drain plug out of the pan place the pan down on the block and bolt it down. There should be some force needed to push the belt pulley through the two front seals when installing it. A Neoprene seal???? Why???

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Kelly Jewell (KY)

03-23-2005 21:00:54




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 Re: Crankshaft front oil seal in reply to Alan Merkel, 03-23-2005 16:56:20  
Alan, one more thing I forgot, is you crank pulley worn out, as this can be a big problem. Again, the only source I know of for the sheet metal pulley is N.H. I think its 2N6312. All the aftermarkets I seen lately are solid steel with pump drive holes and they don't seem to seal off the oil as well as the sheet metal pulleys....thanks, Kelly.



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Dell (WA)

03-24-2005 08:13:37




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 Re: Crankshaft front oil seal in reply to Kelly Jewell (KY), 03-23-2005 21:00:54  
Kelly..... ....I for one, am glad that they don't sell the sheetmetal front pulley ennymores. THEY BEND and wobble. The 1-piece billet steel pulley with FEL pump drive holes is lathe trued; don't bend, don't wobble and don't leak. Ya want my old wobbley sheetmetal pulley?..... ...respectfully, Dell



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Kelly Jewell (KY)

03-23-2005 20:55:54




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 Re: Crankshaft front oil seal in reply to Alan Merkel, 03-23-2005 16:56:20  
Alan, does your NAPN seals have different upper and lower seals? Most aftermarket sets up and down are same. Henry always had upper and lower marked red and green. Red goes down and green goes up, if I remember correctly. A friend of mine that restores a lot of these tractors called me a year or so ago and said he was having trouble getting the front rope to seal. I suggested he order the 9N6781 set from New Holland which is a pan set with ropes. They were correct then, and corrected his problem. Also I've been told they used asbestos in the originals and when they replaced this material, not as good....thanks, Kelly.

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NEsota

03-23-2005 20:54:01




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 Re: Crankshaft front oil seal in reply to Alan Merkel, 03-23-2005 16:56:20  
Over 30 years ago, on a Ford 352 V8 I replaced a two-piece rope type rear seal. Here is how to handle the top half. Turn a metal screw into an exposed end of the upper half and pull it out. The tool for pulling the new top half in and there must be a name for the "X" but I don't know it. The "X" is like those finger pull things that you used to see at carnivals. They were a stranded material woven into a tube that slipped over the end of your fingers and as you pulled them apart the harder you pulled the more they tightened. Electricians use the "X" to tie up and support the span of heavy rubber covered cable. Anyway the "X" in question was made of small stranded metal and the one end was connected to a single strand of small cable with a loop on the end. One end of the new rope "half" gasket slipped into the open end of the "X", the loop end was feed in over the shaft. Then by pulling on the loop you pulled it into place. It helped to rotate the crank in the direction you were pulling.

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Drmeatman

03-23-2005 19:22:56




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 Re: Crankshaft front oil seal in reply to Alan Merkel, 03-23-2005 16:56:20  
Allen, this same question came up a few days ago and several gave their take on this subject. I purchased the Napa part(rubber) yesterday so I would have it on hand if I ever tried this application for the front oil seal.Why it appears worthy of this application and I would use it,I can't understand how it could be installed without removing the pan.And removing the pan should be done "very carefully" so as not to damage the oil pickup tube.If you are able to install it without removing the pan I hope you will post it here and how you done it.Can't understand how one would remove the old rope seal and put this rubber seal in the groove while theres pressure on the crank and pan. HUMMM ?

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Alan Merkel

03-23-2005 19:45:58




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 Re: Crankshaft front oil seal in reply to Drmeatman, 03-23-2005 19:22:56  
I also was surprised by the suggestion that this job could be done without removing the pan - if only for the removal of the old seal. I'm still confused about the need to remove the timing gear cover. Is the upper half of the seal in the cover, or is it in the block? If it is in the cover, then removing the cover should make it a lot easier to get the top half out. Thanks for your help.



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drmeatman

03-23-2005 20:09:49




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 Re: Crankshaft front oil seal in reply to Alan Merkel, 03-23-2005 19:45:58  
Allen, the upper half is in the timing cover.Has to come off.I can see how one "might"remove the bottom at this point by pushing and pulling on the bottom rope but if this could be accomplished how would one install the neoprene seal without damaging? The seal I have (NAPA) is not flexible.Don't see how it would go one the crank and into the 'groove" under pressure.You do it ,you let "us"know.

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Bob

03-23-2005 21:03:57




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 Re: Crankshaft front oil seal in reply to drmeatman, 03-23-2005 20:09:49  
I'm not sure either, if it could be done without removing the pan, by removing the timing cover.

Remember, though, the seal's ID is considerably larger than the crankshaft snout, as it seals to the extended hub on the front pulley, rather than to the actual crankshaft itself. So there is at least SOME "wiggle room" to attempt to get the seal back and down into the oil pan's seal groove.



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Dell (WA)

03-23-2005 17:41:11




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 Re: Crankshaft front oil seal in reply to Alan Merkel, 03-23-2005 16:56:20  
Alan..... ....understand that I have NEVER replaced the N's 2-piece front crankshaft seal with a 1-piece neoprine seal but the pictures supplied by Bob (Or) clearly shows the camshaft cover is grooved for the seal and should sitdown over the new 1-piece seal after you've gotter worked over the front of the crankshaft and into the oilpan seal groove.

Me? I'd at least try to replace the frontseal WITHOUT removing the castiron oilpan. Might work/might NOT. !Quein Sabe? You can ALWAYS remove the oilpan later iff'n necessary.

And NO, you don't haffta support the engine from above because it is STILL ATTACHED to 1/2 the tractor tranny housing which is supported by the rear axle and under the tranny support that you would supply iff'n ya haffta remove the engine oilpan.

And since the I&T NEVER EVER HEARD of a 1-piece oilseal, NO-WONDER they recommend removing the crankshaft. Thats the way you need to install the 2-piece rope seals, remove the crankshaft..... ....Dell

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HOOKER

03-23-2005 17:39:15




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 Re: Crankshaft front oil seal in reply to Alan Merkel, 03-23-2005 16:56:20  
a forklift comes in handy!!!!
thats what i use
swing set with a good rope???
a-frame with a chain hoist????
skyhook???
atv/motorcycle jack????
2 strong high school boys????
jake



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Rip VanWinkle

04-18-2005 04:02:26




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 Re: Crankshaft front oil seal in reply to HOOKER, 03-23-2005 17:39:15  
I just put one in my 52 8n with side mount distrubtor I could not put it in place without lowering the pan. If the lip on the pan was broken away you could do it in place. If youre pan is in factory condition the seal will not fit between the chaft and the pan without damaging the seal. What i had to do was to remove the timing chain cover and drop the pan down about 3/8 inch. Slide on the new one piece seal then angle it in the timing cain cover and put a few loose bolts in the cover. The timing chain cover has to come into place first as the distrbutor drive gear wont let you come straight down into place. Then guide the seal into the pan lip as you raise the pan. Secure the pan then secure the timing chain cover. I tried it several other ways and it would not come together because there is no flex in the one piece seal.

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