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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Little spark

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Andrew Feicht

05-08-2005 13:40:23




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when I try to start my 2n i can"t get even it to fire a little bit. even with starter fluid straight onto the plug. i have taken them out and they are clean, and so it the rotor. does any one know what is going on. I do have both gas a vacume at the carborator. thanks for any help!




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Dell (WA)

05-08-2005 14:42:38




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 Re: Little spark in reply to Andrew Feicht, 05-08-2005 13:40:23  
Andy..... ...first you've gottta help yer self by being detective. PROVE you have volts at the top terminal of your squarecan ignition coil. It may be battery 6volts (points open) or it may be about 3volts (points closed) caused by the "infamous ballast resistor". Don't really matter which volts you have, you've just gottta have some volts.

NO VOLTS? find out where you lost'em. checkout the "infamous ballast resistor" below your ammeter. The ballast resistor is like a lightbulb, it eather works or it doesn't. Battery Volts across the ballast resistor, ballast is BAD ...or... NO VOLTS across the ballast resistor, ballast resistor is good.

Same for the ignition switch. Switch on, NO VOLTS switch is good. Something other than battery volts, switch is BAD. Battery volts with switch ON, switch is BAD.

One last check, gently stretch yer coils springy-thingy for better contact with yer points.

Now then, iff'n you KNOW you really have volts to the top of yer 1-terminal squarecan ignition coil, then remember INSIDE yer frontmount distributor, there is a flatstrap connector to your ignition points. It sometimes breaks and the points are nolonger effectively working. It sometimes gitts SHORTED and the points are effectively nolonger working.

Remember, you gitt sparkies when the points OPEN. Iff'n they NEVER open ...or... are always OPEN; then you will NEVER gitt enny sparkies. Understand?..... ....respectfully, Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

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Phil (AZ, NJ, Sask)

05-08-2005 15:06:28




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 Re: Little spark in reply to Dell (WA), 05-08-2005 14:42:38  
"NO VOLTS? find out where you lost"em. checkout the "infamous ballast resistor" below your ammeter. The ballast resistor is like a lightbulb, it eather works or it doesn"t. Battery Volts across the ballast resistor, ballast is BAD ...or... NO VOLTS across the ballast resistor, ballast resistor is good"

Del that advise is misleading.

Measuring Across the ballast Resistor, with the points "open" will result in Zero Volts on Both a good Resistor or a Bad Resistor.

Measuring Across the ballast Resistor, with the points "Closed".. the Voltage will be ~ 3 Volts on a good Ballast... A Bad Ballast (open) will measure Battery voltage.

The Best test would be to short the Pigtail Coil Connector to Ground (frame) and Measure Across the Ballast...3 Volts across Ballast and 3 Volts across Coil.

JMHO

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Dell (WA)

05-08-2005 16:42:21




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 Re: Little spark in reply to Phil (AZ, NJ, Sask), 05-08-2005 15:06:28  
Phil..... ..longtime no see, you argrumentative nit-picker (grin)

You wrote..... ..."Measuring Across the ballast Resistor, with the points "Closed".. the Voltage will be ~ 3 Volts on a good Ballast..." Sorry friend, your analysis is wrong. While it is true, there is about a 3volt drop across the ballast resistor WITH RESPECT TO GROUND. Just measuring across a good ballast resistor will have NO voltage drop.....You are correct....."A Bad Ballast (open) will measure Battery voltage"

And while you are correct, removing the squarecan ignition coil for access to the springy-thingy for circuit analysis will compete the simple series circuit, we're dealing with an electrically challenged neubie. Remember the KISS principle.

I standby my original advice....."NO VOLTS? find out where you lost'em"..... ....respectfully, Dell

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Phil (NJ,AZ, Sask)

05-08-2005 23:33:26




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 Re: Little spark in reply to Dell (WA), 05-08-2005 16:42:21  
"While it is true, there is about a 3volt drop across the ballast resistor WITH RESPECT TO GROUND. Just measuring across a good ballast resistor will have NO voltage drop....."

Come DELL! Voltage drops are not "with Respect to ground" and that statement does not make any sense.

The Sum of the Voltage drops (across Components)in a Series Circuit is Absolutly equal to the Battery voltage (Applied Voltage)

The standard Simple Ignition Circuit has 2 main Components that divide the Applied voltage, the Coil & the Ballast. (The Points & Ignition Switch should not exceed .5 volt)

The Practice of measuring with one probe on Ground does not directly provide the Voltage Drop
across the Ballast. (its like washing you feet with your socks on)

Example of measuring with one probe on Ground:

1. With one probe on the Coil Side of the Ballast you will Measure the voltage between the ground side of the Points, across the points including the coil... ~ 3.0 Volts. (its the same as measuring on top of the Coil.. to ground)

2. With one Probe on the Ignition Side of the Ballast you will measure voltage between the ground side of the Points, across the points including the coil & the "Ballast Resistor"... ~ 6.0 V

The resulting calculation is that the Ballast must have a ~3 volts drop (6-3) , but..measuring directly Across the Ballast will provide a direct reading of 3 Volts

The Only time you will measure, or calculate, ZERO volts across the Ballast is if ZERO current is flowing in the circuit (points are open)

Think DELL, or go measure!

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Phil (AZ,NJ,Sask)

05-09-2005 12:55:31




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 Re: Little spark in reply to Phil (NJ,AZ, Sask), 05-08-2005 23:33:26  
third party image
Link

Measured>Link Voltage Drop Across Ballast (photo)

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Phil(AZ,NJ,Sask)

05-09-2005 13:00:52




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 Re: Little spark in reply to Phil (AZ,NJ,Sask), 05-09-2005 12:55:31  
third party image

Link



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old

05-08-2005 14:34:33




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 Re: Little spark in reply to Andrew Feicht, 05-08-2005 13:40:23  
Sounds like you have little or no spark at the plugs, Pull a plug and hold it on the engine some where and see if you have a good blue spark, if you don't you have a problem in the dist.



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