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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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2N Carb rebuild....now the bad news....

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6N's Short

05-17-2005 11:22:07




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Sounds good, idles nice, BUT.....

Starting to smoke like a smudge pot. It always had a small puff of blue smoke here and there before the carb rebuild but this is quite different. When it is idling or not under load at higher RPM it smokes a little. Put a mower on it yesterday and it started smoking like a son of a gun. Looks like oil burning to me but by now EVERYBODY is familiar with my level of expertise.
A couple of things you should know about the tractor.

First, it may have been abused in a prior life. In a nutshell, based on my long experience with 3 point implements and from lift arm condition....too much implement for the tractor and more than once.

Second, I graded our road with the tractor before the carb rebuild and while it was not overly powerful, it did a good job and smoked little.

Third, the oil in this tractor is some of the worst I have ever seen. Blacker than black. I WILL remedy this ASAP but didn't want to do an oil change for a tractor that might need a tear down until after the tear down.

I could use a little direction on how to determine my next course. Is it smoking because the oil has broken down? Are the rings bad? Did I cause this fixing the carb somehow? The tractor loses power quickly after a load is added.
Just need a little guidance. Thanks!

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Steve (Magnolia, TX)

05-17-2005 13:38:59




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 Re: 2N Carb rebuild....now the bad news.... in reply to 6N's Short, 05-17-2005 11:22:07  
I'll chime in on the oil change, too.

As for the weight of the oil... to me it'd depend on the condition of the engine. If it's original (or an 'old' rebuild), I'd stick with ND30. But... if I'd just rebuilt it (which I did, with mine) I'd run (and do) 10w-40 in it. The compression test would be a good "guesstimator" of the length of time since the last rebuild (assuming you don't already know it), so I might do that before changing the oil (so I'd know what oil to put in it) but I'd definitely change the oil BEFORE running it...

Steve

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old

05-17-2005 13:17:04




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 Re: 2N Carb rebuild....now the bad news.... in reply to 6N's Short, 05-17-2005 11:22:07  
I'm with the other guys CHANGE that oil. I'd also go with something like a 40W or 50W oil. I always use valvoline raceing in every thing I own unless its a diesel. Also you have to figure an oil change is $15 or so and a blown engine is $1000 and even if you need to rebuild the engine, clean oil makes the job nicer to do because things will be cleaner in the engine.



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Rob

05-17-2005 13:07:09




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 Re: 2N Carb rebuild....now the bad news.... in reply to 6N's Short, 05-17-2005 11:22:07  
You should have adjusted the main jet; and changed the oil.

Anyway, turn the main jet in 1/8-turn at a time until you eliminate the smoke, or at least minimize the smoke. You get to the minimum then put the brake on to load the engine and goose up to 1/2-throttle. It should pick up without hesitation. If it doesn"t, go out another 1/4-turn and try, repeat as needed. When you get there and if it smokes a puff when you goose it then turn the main back in 1/8-turn.

Some of that smoke could be oil but maybe not.

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6N's Short

05-17-2005 16:11:42




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 Re: 2N Carb rebuild....now the bad news.... in reply to Rob, 05-17-2005 13:07:09  
Rob, I will change the oil and then I will adjust the main jet. I DID give it a try but the smoke was pretty bad, it was late, and I was tired, so I turned in. I can try again maybe Friday. I have taken a break from the fun tractor to work on my Ford 1520 which blew a seal in the left side front hub assembly. I really need to get the grass cut here and the 2N is not up to it. You should have heard that baby idle after I used those instructions you gave me. I have them printed out and in the manual. Works great if you have the throttle plate in right. This will sort out too...but first I will bow to the general consensus and CHANGE THE OIL. Thanks all!

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Rob

05-18-2005 08:02:12




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 Re: 2N Carb rebuild....now the bad news.... in reply to 6N's Short, 05-17-2005 16:11:42  
I know you"re glad that lesson of hard knocks is behind and that you now have the tractor working as designed with respect to the idle spec anyway. I know it"s satisfying to get there. That and it starts good.
I strive to get my equipment in spec because then I know there is no masked problem that will jump out to bite my hiney just when I need to get some work done. That"s when lurking problems raise their head you know, not when you"re just puttering around, the problems jump out when you really need something done now.
You have a feel and know how the idle is suppose to act and adjust and you will know when the carb needs cleaning or rebuilt because the idle won"t act and adjust as designed. It"s a good feeling.

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Barnstormer

05-17-2005 11:58:46




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 Re: 2N Carb rebuild....now the bad news.... in reply to 6N's Short, 05-17-2005 11:22:07  
Good golly! Change that Oil! I would use a straight 30 or 40 wt.
The carb main jet should be as lean as you can go without engine stumble when you snap the throttle to wide open. Too rich and you will foul plugs especially if you do very many start and shut-off cold (engine not warmed up).



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denny(ny)

05-17-2005 11:56:08




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 Re: 2N Carb rebuild....now the bad news.... in reply to 6N's Short, 05-17-2005 11:22:07  
As the wise one told me previously....Its time to do the dreaded compression test. Wet and dry. 20 psi difference= worn. 30 psi difference= very worn. 40 psi difference= time for rebuild. no change=burnt valve. You could have a stuck oil ring also. before you do comp. test pull sparkies and pour 1 oz. of mmo down each plug hole and rock the tractor with it in gear. Leavit over night. do the same thing for three days. after the third day, start her up and smoke out the neighborhood. get it warm and then do the comp. test. your battery will need to be completely charged and strong. pull out all plugs so the engine dosent have any resistance. Do the dry test first. then pour an table spoon of oil down the cylnders (one at a time) and retest. I hope this is accurate with what dell told me to do. It worked very well for me. Good luck.
Denny

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6N's Short

05-17-2005 15:58:09




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 Re: 2N Carb rebuild....now the bad news.... in reply to denny(ny), 05-17-2005 11:56:08  
Wise one?!?! Bob has helped you too?

Seriously though...could I ask what mmo is? Chances are if I try to figure it out myself I'll pour something wrong in there.



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Dell (WA)

05-17-2005 16:06:44




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 Re: 2N Carb rebuild....now the bad news.... in reply to 6N's Short, 05-17-2005 15:58:09  
Shorty..... ...MMO is shorthand for Marvel Mystery Oil. One of the few cans of panther pi$$ that work. It is a "solvent" and is frequently used to "un-stick" piston rings. Stuck piston rings cause LOW COMPRESSION and burning oil. Follow the instruction on the side of the old fashioned printing..... ..Dell



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6N's Short

05-17-2005 16:13:37




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 Re: 2N Carb rebuild....now the bad news.... in reply to Dell (WA), 05-17-2005 16:06:44  
Thank you sir! I will hunt some up.



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souNdguy

05-17-2005 11:30:49




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 Re: 2N Carb rebuild....now the bad news.... in reply to 6N's Short, 05-17-2005 11:22:07  
If it is blue smoke.. then it is most likely oil. If it is black sooty smoke.. then it is a super rich mainjet.

Now, I think the group let you down here... we should have told you that the first thing that gets done on a NEW-to-YOU tractor, is a full fluid service.. new radiator, new tranny, new crankcase fluid. Unless you sat right their and held the previous owners hand while he did it.

If your oil is indeed way black.. it's old.. and who knows.. with as much carb fiddleing that has been going on.. you may have some pretty thin and well gas diluted oil.. and thin oil sneaks past oil control rings on 50 year old pistons like crazy.

Change your oil.. recheck. Also.. on your carb mainjet. If you are more than 2 turns out.. you are in a real rich neighborhood.

Soundguy

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6N's Short

05-17-2005 15:55:20




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 Re: 2N Carb rebuild....now the bad news.... in reply to souNdguy, 05-17-2005 11:30:49  
Naw....they didn't let me down. I can't criticize people that walked me thru a carb rebuild like that! They was just assuming I had enough sense to check the oil before I monkeyed with the carb. Next time they'll know better!



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gahorN

05-18-2005 07:30:46




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 Re: 2N Carb rebuild....now the bad news.... in reply to 6N's Short, 05-17-2005 15:55:20  
Yep,..change the oil. I"d certainly suggest you stick with straight-weight oil, like SAE 30, 40, or even 50 if the engine is well-worn and runs low on oil pressure when hot. Remember 10W40 oil is SAE 10 wt oil!!!...with additives that go away in time to make it act like SAE 40 when it"s 100 degrees centigrade. When those additives are gone...you get .... smoky motors due to thin oil. (Sound familiar? Any brand is fine. You"d be amazed at how many people swear by a particular brand not realizing there"s only a few blenders in the business and it all comes from all over the world and is dumped into the same tanks all the time before it"s blended. Modern additives are tightly controlled due to EPA/Emission and car warranty requirements on the "detergent" oils and non-detergent oils are..well...nothing but oil, so how can they be any different? Especially since "Pennsylvania-grade" crudes are no longer kept seperate.) Dont mean to start an argument...but if WalMart SuperTech HD 30 allowed my Jeep to make 247,000 miles with no trouble and no oil burning (it got another 4,000-5,000 mile WalMart 88-cent/qt and $1.50 SuperTech filter change yesterday)..then why spend $2.25/qt on oil?

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6N's Short

05-19-2005 14:31:27




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 Re: 2N Carb rebuild....now the bad news.... in reply to gahorN, 05-18-2005 07:30:46  
Just looking back at my old threads for assistance this weekend when I do my oil change and start looking for more problems. Don't know if you will see this response, but thanks for the info on oil. I'll look for the SAE 30 or 40 when I go to TSC tomorrow.



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