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'52 8N won't start

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Pete Rivera

05-19-2005 22:22:44




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My '52 8N w/side mount distributor won't start. Changed carb, ignition points/condenser, spark plugs, distributor primay terminals. Have great spark on all spark plugs, good compression (finger check), gap on plugs (.025) and points 9.o15). Fuel comes out of the new carb after much choking. Pulled spark plugs (dry as a bone). Rotor points to no. 1 wire on distributor cap when no. 1 is at TDC. Is there something I'm missing?

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Pete Rivera

05-20-2005 20:14:00




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 Re: '52 8N won't start in reply to Pete Rivera, 05-19-2005 22:22:44  
Tried all the recommendations given. THe old gal still won't start. Again, great spark, rotor points to No. 1 S/P w/No. 1 at TDC. Lots of fuel coming out of the new carb (made adjustments as recommended) but the S/P are still "dry as a bone." I even pulled the intake/exhaust manifold off to see if there is any blockage (clean as a whistle), cranked her over and saw the pistons(?) moving up/dn. So, what will cause insufficient fuel carb-to-cylinder? I also tried shooting starting fluid into the carb intake; tried to start... no joy.
Please help.

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Russ SoCal

05-20-2005 21:50:44




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 Re: '52 8N won't start in reply to Pete Rivera, 05-20-2005 20:14:00  
Pete,
You've hit about all the bases except a compression check with a gauge. Unless there is a BIG vacuum leak that only occurs when you're not looking.
Was there anything leading up to the no start? Running rough? Loaned the tractor to your BIL? Fell in the pond?
Russ



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Pete Rivera

05-20-2005 22:53:04




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 Re: '52 8N won't start in reply to Russ SoCal, 05-20-2005 21:50:44  
Russ,

Haven't checked the compression with a tester... yet. What would indicate a BIG vacuum leak? What would be the fix? Great tip! Never would've thought of a vacuum leak. Thanks;-)

I loaned the tractor to my "Bro" last fall to brushhog his property. Went back to get it and found the tractor in his field uncovered (I always covered my tractor). It now has a lot more more rust on it. He told me that he tried running it about a month ago; started up and then died. I have since changed the oil/filter, anit-freeze, alternator, carb, spark plugs, points, rotor, distributor terminals, etc. I just need to get it started and out of his field so I can do more work on it.

Thanks again for the tip.

Pete

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Russ SoCal

05-21-2005 08:48:48




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 Re: '52 8N won't start in reply to Pete Rivera, 05-20-2005 22:53:04  
Pete,
The vacuum leak comment was one of them tongue in cheek things; problems that only occur while yer back is turned. But it might be good to just look at the carb to manifold joint and say "Yes, gasket in place." And you DO recall there being gaskets between the manifold and block?
"Good spark." FO-4 manual recommends checking with a spare sparkplug opened to 3/16 inch and looking for a consistent blue spark. (Calculator says that"s seven and a half times the normal gap.)
All that said, the dry plugs indicate it just plain ain"t gettin the fuel up there.
Admittedly shooting in the dark, I would give it a quick shot of starting fluid on the outside of the carb and two quick spurts around the manifold while cranking a cool engine with no choke. No pops, I"d go back to the old carb, disassemble, clean and inspect and try it.
Lemme know how the compression check reads and how the wide open spark plug performs. There"s a key to this mystery somewhere.
Hope yer "bro" is being a good "gofer."
Russ

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Pete Rivera

05-22-2005 22:25:19




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 Re: '52 8N won't start in reply to Russ SoCal, 05-21-2005 08:48:48  
Russ,
Tried everything you recommended. Sparks good, no pop around the manifold w/starting fluid sprayed, re-inpsected the carb - no gunk, compression was around 80-90 psi and jumps to about 110-120 psi wet.
The funny thing is that everytime I set the timing (no. 1 at TDC, timing mark at 4 deg, then moved rotor so it'll point close to no. 1 spark plug, points just about to break), etc. and then tried to start it again, it will fire for about 5 seconds then just peter-out. Checking the timing again, I noticed that the rotor would be in a different position. I marked the 0 and 4 deg lines so I can be consistent with which mark to use (didn't want to be 180 out).
Anyway, I even tried starting it by having another tractor pull me (tried to start on 2nd and 1st gear.) I was told that the back tires seem to roll backwards whenever I attempt a start. I don't know if that is a significant indication. It did try to start but it was making a very odd noise. I don't know what I'm missing, but the a couple of "good ole boys" who do know their way around farm equipment inidcated that I should either re-build or change the motor. I this point, it's hard to argue.
Do you know where one could get a re-built 8N engine? Do you know anyone in Northwest Washington area that could re-build the engine for a reasonable price?
Thanks,
Pete

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Mike OH

05-20-2005 06:36:46




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 Re: '52 8N won't start in reply to Pete Rivera, 05-19-2005 22:22:44  
Pete- set those points to 0.025" and see what happens. Front mount - points 0.015"; side mount - set to 0.025". Bet she starts right up. Good luck.



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Pete Rivera

05-20-2005 07:24:21




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 Re: '52 8N won't start in reply to Mike OH, 05-20-2005 06:36:46  
Mike,
Thanks for that tip... will set the points to 0.025".
Pete



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Rob

05-20-2005 03:25:47




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 Re: '52 8N won't start in reply to Pete Rivera, 05-19-2005 22:22:44  
You need a snappy, blue spark at the plug and not a wimpy, yellow spark. Carb initial setting is both adjust screws out one-turn.
Try a shot of starter fluid to see if it will fire. If it fires then you can figure it"s a fuel problem.

Early manual says; "[s]et throttle four or five notches from top and turn on ignition switch. Pull choke out and hold for an instant ONLY [emphasis in the service manual], while the starter cranks the engine. Cold weather will require holding the choke slightly longer." Later manuals say; “turn the ignition switch on, and partially open the throttle. Hold the clutch pedal down, and press the starter button. If the engine does not start promptly, pull the choke button out for several engine revolutions. Use the choke as needed until the engine runs smoothly.” If it doesn’t start the first time, don’t use the choke the second or third time. Maybe choke some the fourth time. Gotta go easy on the choke.

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Pete Rivera

05-20-2005 07:19:00




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 Re: '52 8N won't start in reply to Rob, 05-20-2005 03:25:47  
Rob,
The only thing I haven't done is "hold the clutch down..." Is there an interlock on the clutch systems? I will definitely try it - thanks.
Pete



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Rob

05-20-2005 07:51:25




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 Re: '52 8N won't start in reply to Pete Rivera, 05-20-2005 07:19:00  
No interlock on the clutch. It does help some when the starter doesn"t have to turn the tranny and drive the hydraulic pump and PTO.
Setting the points right will probable get it.



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