motor oil; detergent v non-detergent

Maybe if someone was going too long between oil changes, ND oil would be preferable. Even then, you lose the buffers against acidity and moisture that protect the engine from wear.

Yeah there's two reasons that Henry Ford didn't specify detergent oil for the original 8Ns: first, detergent oil didn't exist back then, and secondly, H. Ford was a businessman, not an engineer, so his opinion would mean squat!

Here's what I know - I use Rotella 15w-40 in my 8N, changing it once a year. With the Rotella, my oil pressure never drops below 15-20 PSI, and the tractor starts in the winter. If I went to a single viscosity oil, I'd have problems starting in the winter, and oil pressure would be around 2-5 PSI in the summer. The first couple changes with Rotella I got lots of sludge out, but now the engine seems to be nice and clean inside and I can rest easier knowing that oil is likely getting everywhere it needs to be.

• Amsoil

Please take time to read what I wrote. I DID NOT SAY to "bypass the filter".

I said "people install bypass filters IN ADDITION TO OEM full-flow filters on modern diesel light trucks.

As far as when detergent oil become COMMONLY USED, by the general public, it happened during my time on this earth, and I ain't THAT ancient!

• Your post.

As far as detergent oil hurting cork gaskets, or rope seals, that's a bunch of hooey!

People certainly are free to do what they want, so if modern oil scares you, why not give up your computer, the 'net, your modern automatic transmission, fuel injected car, modern medicine and wonder drugs, and any other modern IMPROVEMENTS and live back in the era of 1939????

(Of course, with some of the developments in the prescription drug area lately, giving up a lot of them might not be a bad idea!)

Enough ranting! Gotta go to work!

:)

Dan

Dan

On a no-filter system I'd deffinately use ND oil.. like lawnmowers and compressors.. etc..

Soundguy

But it is your engine and you can use what you want for what ever reason you want. Sometimes it is good to know more about it then what is "generally accepted."

Besides, ND is cheaper than detergent oil. Near 15% cheaper. I don"t want to pay for additives that actually cause excessive wear regardless of what others use.

1. Oil cost is relatively insignificant to the issue. That said, detergent oils are usually less expensive than ND oils because major brands of detergent oils are frequently found at sale prices at major retailers whereas ND oils, if available, are rarely discounted. Additionally, as detergent oils are retailed in much higher volumes than ND oils, the associated economies of scale usually result in lower prices for the detergent oils.

2. Most "full-flow" oil filters routinely bypass a significant percentage of the oil, especially when cold and even at operating temperature.

I am convinced that the use of detergent oils in a "clean" N engine is the better practice despite the partial-flow oil filter system. Of course, such practice would not be recommended in any engine that has not been thoroughly cleaned during a major overhaul.

Dean

While it is true that the dispersants in "detergent" oil are added in order to more effectively keep particulate contamination in suspension so that the modern "full-flow" oil filters, which are, in reality, not really full-flow," can remove more such contamination more quickly; it does not follow that particulate contamination will not be found in the ND oil in a running engine whether equipped with a full-flow oil filtering system or otherwise. Granted, "detergent" oils will more effectively keep such contamination in suspension and for a longer time. I have changed the ND oil in my share of cars with both partial and full flow oil filters (or no oil filter at all), and I can attest that the used oil that comes out will have contain particulate contaminantion.

Dean

Detergents

In the same way that some chemical compounds are used to prevent engine rust and corrosion, other chem­icals are added to motor oil to help prevent combustion by-products from forming harmful sludge or varnish deposits. Detergents are added to motor oil because combustion causes carbon build-up and deposit forma­tion on the pistons, rings, valves and cylinder walls. Carbon and deposits affect engine temperature, oil circula­tion, engine performance and fuel effi­ciency. Detergent additives clean these by-products from the oil. Some com­bustion by-products slip past the piston rings and end up in the motor oil, which can clog the engine’s oil channels.

Dispersants

While detergents help minimize the amount of combustion by-products, dispersant additives keep those by­products suspended in a form so fine they minimize deposits. They keep the oil in the engine clean while they prevent the build-up of carbon or deposits from burned and unburned fuel and even from the oil itself. Eventually, these suspended particles are removed by the oil filter.

• Amsoil What is Motor Oil page

I have run detergent oil in all my engines, about FOREVER, and have had NO unusual wear or overhauls neded, and this is in a real farm working environment.

So, the bottom line is, run what you're confortable with but don't scare folks needlessly about detergent oil!

Scare? I guess that"s one way to look at it.

I don"t know how many hours are lost by using detergent oil. It might be 30-minutes. But using detergent oil does circulate abrasives. If it"s a huge deal is another question.

They tap into the main oiling system, and allow a controlled amount of oil to pass through the added bypass filter, which is the same way the "N"'s are set up.

Here's a link to a site with the bypass filter retro-fit kits, which are reputed to remove smaller wear-causing particles than a full-flow filter does.

So, for the samll wear-causing particles you are worrying about, there's nothing wrong with a bypass filter.

Even with ND oil, you're going to have most of the wear-causing particles circulating around with the oil until filtered out, but, of course, during shut-down theywill settle out as sludge.

I have no opinion on Amsoil products, for or against. There are many other bypass filter kits out there, this was simply the first site I found.

They are talking about only 10% of the oil flow going through the bypass filter, and still cleaning up the oil beyond what the OEM full-flow filter will do.

• bypass

Biggest cause of engine oil based wear is ACID. Which is a natural by-product of combustion process. Detergent based engine oils and especially modern multi-weight oils have both acid neutralizers and partical suppension additives.

Yeah, the 15% bypass filter situation is a problem but is addressed by using a QUALITY oilfilter like NAPA gold 1010. DO NOT USE FRAM oilfilters, they have been proven by independent testing laboratorys as inefficent at filtering particals. (measured in microns)

Even the Ford OWNERS MANUAL recommends ANNUAL or 100hrs of operation engine OIL CHANGE with original spec 30wt oil. Frequent oil changes gitts ridd of contaminants.

I change my 8N's oil every fall and use Valvoline 20-50wt. Multi-weight oil starts out cold at the lower number and heat effects additives giving it the effect of thicker oil. After 5hrs of brushhoggin' my idle oil pressure is still 30psi which is good enuff for me.

I have always used Valvoline after working as a BMW dealer mechanic. I saw what fussy BMW owners required "specialist" oils can do BMW engines. Not purddy. I can eat off the insides my 1969 BMW 2002 cast alminum OHC valve cover and it has over 385k miles on it.

Your engine, yer oil; use and change that makes you happy..... .....respectfully, Dell the oily

So says the operator"s manual.

If your engine is worn you might want to go heavier weight to keep up the oil pressure. Either that or rebuild to get the oil pressure up.