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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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altenator wiring

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Rusty8N

06-03-2005 14:41:22




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Can any one explain how an alternator (12 Volt conversion, front mount, Delco) can only have one wire? It came this way...it has run, although I have had so many sparking problems, I thought I would start with a new harness make sure everything is clean and tight....but I can"t figure out the differnec between what I have and the wiring diagrams which show multiple wires coming from the alterntor...I have no wires connected where the square plug would normal plug in...just a wire going to the body of the altenator...I once saw a reference on this board to "one wire conversion" but it did not answer my question....any one?

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Jim Cox

06-04-2005 07:25:13




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 Re: altenator wiring in reply to Rusty8N, 06-03-2005 14:41:22  
the typical Delco alt needs two things to get the current flowing to the rotating magnetic field. One: Enable (my term, others say 'excite'). This is the #1 on the plug at the rear Two: RPMs: they were designed this way so you wouldn't have 3-7 amps flowing thru your slip rings and brushes should the engine die. One wire alts need more RPM to turn on because they don't have the enable circuit to help them. The residual magnetism in the rotor induces ( ask Dell about Mr Faraday ) a small amount of current in the stator (stationary) winding. This miniscule electricity is rectified by the diode trio - (no it's not a triode, that's a vacuum tube!) and this little signal turns on the regulator, and current is sent to the rotor to begin making electricity. If you don't have the enable wire, you have to spin the rotor faster to get started, and more engine RPMs. The self-excite one-wire I built back in my NH days came alive at 1/3 throttle on my '41 9N, but it was designed for AG use, and not for some old chevy impala that will see alot more RPMs. HOWEVER, once the alternator is turned on, it will charge at low RPM if it is a proper AG alternator. I still sell a few of the wide pulleys on ebay for Delco/N applications.

As for specially designed regulators, yes. make sure they're not junk if you go buy one. If it's less than ten bucks, it's worthless. Rectifiers for one wire? Never heard of such a thing.

Another important factor is the stator winding. A low amperage stator will work better at lower RPMs ( Dell, tell them about Wye vs. Delta sometime ) even though they have less TOTAL output. Be realistic, how much do you need on a N series?

As for the second wire, the SENSE wire, the VREG has that information inside the alternator, but you can run a higher voltage if you use a separate sense wire from somewhere else on the vehilcle with a 3 wire. There again, how much does a N really need?

My 54 Ford Sedan has a three wire. That's the one the real engineers came up with, and that's what i'm sticking too.

Off my soapbox now

Jim Cox
Former Product Engineer
Case/New Holland Remanufactured Electrical
(but nowhere near as smart as Dell !!!!)

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Bob

06-03-2005 23:37:41




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 Re: altenator wiring in reply to Rusty8N, 06-03-2005 14:41:22  
The alternators, as designed by GM/Delco needed all three wires connected.

Aftermarket outfits have developed special replacement voltage regulators, and, in some cases, a different diode setup to help the alternator "excite" at a lower RPM than is typical of the "one-wire" units.

These alternators work by using more sensistive rectifier and regulator components that are able to rectify the slight AC voltage produced at startup, by the action of the tiny amount of residual magnetism in the rotor inducing current in the stator.

The one-wire units are a boon to "the electrically challenged" as Dell would say, because they're initially easier to hook up, but are a pain when they give trouble and the owner doesn't realize what they have and replaces them with a standard alternator, which then refuses to work, since it is not set up as a one-wire unit, even though it is identical in appearance to the unit just replaced.

Click the link below for a treatise on one-wire versus three-wire alternators.

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Rob

06-03-2005 17:38:36




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 Re: altenator wiring in reply to Rusty8N, 06-03-2005 14:41:22  
The one-wire set up charges when the rpm is high enough. That"s ok on higher rpm automotive engines. For these low rpm tractors you want to excite it so it charges at lower rpm"s.



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JimNC

06-03-2005 15:48:35




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 Re: altenator wiring in reply to Rusty8N, 06-03-2005 14:41:22  
When you have a self exciting regulator in the alt. all you need is the one wire from the alt. to complete the charge circuit. I"m sure somebody else will chime in with a bit more info.


Jim



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jiminoystercreek

06-03-2005 17:22:34




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 Yeah, COME ON DELL! in reply to JimNC, 06-03-2005 15:48:35  
I used to think that the single wire served two purposes, one to excite the armature during startup and then to complete the charging circuit when running, but with all the new stuff (like after 1980) who knows? Come on Dell-tell us what's up with this one wire deal!



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souNdguy

06-03-2005 20:50:49




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 Re: Yeah, COME ON DELL! in reply to jiminoystercreek, 06-03-2005 17:22:34  
The 1 wire jobs self excite when a specific rpm is reached.. .. usually high.. though I have seen some lower rpm self-exciting vr's.

I like hte 3 wire alternators.. that way.. once I'm at anything above idle.. I can excite it and go..

To the original poster.. get a vom.. take a reading .. before start, after start at idle.. then after start at high rpm.. like 2000 rpm.. etc.

The voltage readings will be tell-tale of if and how your alternator is exciting and charging.

Soundguy

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