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Overrcharging 6V 8n?

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Ol' Poke

08-07-2005 14:33:20

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My 50 8n (6-volt) has not shown a charge at the ammeter ever since I bought her. The ammeter shows a slight drop when I turn the ignition key on, and more of a drop with the headlights on. She starts fine, but shows no charge with the engine running. And if I run her for a time with the lights on, she eventually dies and I have to re-charge the battery. I recently replaced my generator, and she still showed the same symptoms. This weekend, I replaced the wiring harness and voltage regulator and polarized. With the engine off, when I turn the ignition key to "on" the ammeter drops a little. The headlights on cause it to drop more, but when the engine is running up the ammeter jumps to the positive side at 30+ amps!!! Is this normal? I haven't run it longer than 10-15 seconds for fear of cooking something. Might the ammeter drop back to "normal" when the battery is fully charged? I don't want to boil my battery. I followed the wiring diagram in my shop manual, and everything seems to be in the right place. I guess my next step is to check the readings with a volt-meter. What should the readings be 1) at the generator (do I measure ground/field/armature?) 2) at the battery posts when the engine is running?

Thanks in advance.

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shady

08-14-2005 04:29:03

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Re: Overrcharging 6V 8n? in reply to Ol' Poke, 08-07-2005 14:33:20

Had the same problem - frustrated the begeebee's out of me for several months. At one point, after I installed a new VR and genny, I had power going through the armature wire to the genny causing it to serve as a motor even with the ignition off! One thing I learned, after you are sure your VR, Battery, and Genny are all okay, the polarization of the VR is crucial. However, and even within many discussion boards at this website, their is confusion as to what the correct way to polarize is. Some say to creat an arc at the VR between BAT and FLD while others say to do so between ARM and FLD. Well, I tried both and thus the cause for power to my genny with the engine and ignition off - I actually created a weld on one of the toggles in the VR causing it to be constantly closed. The correct way to polarize is: create a quick arc at the VR between BAT and ARM. I would check your VR to be sure the toggles inside are free to move and not welded in a closed position.

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souNdguy

08-08-2005 07:22:11

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Re: Overrcharging 6V 8n? in reply to Ol' Poke, 08-07-2005 14:33:20

My bet is miswired.. and the field is grounded.. You are getting good advice .

Soundguy

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Dean

08-08-2005 05:31:44

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Re: Overrcharging 6V 8n? in reply to Ol' Poke, 08-07-2005 14:33:20

It sounds like you may have the field and ground connections reversed at the generator OR regulator. Doing so will cause the generator to produce maximum output constantly regardless of the state of battery charge. If your battery is fully charged and your generator is charging at the levels that you have stated, your connections are reversed or the contacts in the regulator are welded closed.

Dean

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Ol' Poke

08-07-2005 16:38:43

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More info...Overrcharging 6V 8n? in reply to Ol' Poke, 08-07-2005 14:33:20

Here are my ammeter readings:
Not running: 0 amps Key on: -6 amps Lights on: -18 amps
Running: 800 RPM: +10 amps Lights on: 0 amps 1200 RPM: +30 amps Lights on: +20 amps

All battery cells are full. I will have to wait until tomorrow for voltmeter readings.

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Rob

08-07-2005 17:23:23

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Re: More info...Overrcharging 6V 8n? in reply to Ol' Poke, 08-07-2005 16:38:43

Your lights sound about right. The other amps are not.
Max amps is 20 @ 1650rpm volts 7.0.
Regulator:
Cutout closing voltage 6.0-6.6
voltage limiter 7.1-7.5

I"ve used the instructions in the FO-4 para 66-67 to set up the voltage regulator but a guy might just haul the genny and voltage regulator into the generator/starter/alternator shop and they will set them up. It"s not that tricky to set them up. Let me know if you want the instructions. It takes some typing so I"m not going to do it unless you will use them.

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Ol' Poke

08-07-2005 17:48:22

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Re: More info...Overrcharging 6V 8n? in reply to Rob, 08-07-2005 17:23:23

Hello Rob, would it be too much to ask? I don't have ready access to such a shop, and always like doing things myself. Although that's gotten me into trouble as well ;-) Please send along the instructions.

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Rob

08-07-2005 19:25:18

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Re: More info...Overrcharging 6V 8n? in reply to Ol' Poke, 08-07-2005 17:48:22

Ok, first thing is to pull the voltage regulator (VR), wires attached. out the battery door and set it on the hood where you can get at it. Now pull the cover off the VR and ID the normally open (NO) contacts and the normally closed (NC) contacts. Drag a dollar bill through the points to clean them up good, you will have to hold one set closed. Connect/jumper the base of the VR to ground. Good grounds are good things. Maybe you can make the adjustments leaving the VR bolted to the back of the dash but I didn"t even try.
Connect the voltmeter between the GEN terminal and ground. Slowly increase the generator speed and the NO contacts (cutout relay) should close between 6.0-6.6 volts. You adjust that voltage by changing the spring tension on the relay armature (the part that moves). Opening voltage should be, near as I can tell, 0.5-1.5 volts less then the closing voltage or 6amps max reverse current @ 6.0 volts minimum. You adjust that by changing the air gap between the stationary contact point (bend that) and the movable armature contact point.
Connect the voltmeter between the BAT terminal and the regulator base (it is grounded, right?) and you want 7.1 to 7.5 volts with the genny at operating temp and putting out 5amps. Max amps is 20 @ 1650rpm and voltage should not exceed 6.8. Adjust by increasing or decreasing the armature spring tension.
It seems some confusing and it takes itty bitty adjustments on the spring tension and you might over shoot a couple times but once you get your bearings and the hang of it, it is pretty straight forward.

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Mike S

08-07-2005 15:05:49

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Re: Overrcharging 6V 8n? in reply to Ol' Poke, 08-07-2005 14:33:20

I get about 7.2 volts at the generator and 6.5 at the VR. As for amps, if the battery is low, it will take more amps when you first crank it up, I would let it run at idle and see where they go. Mine will drop down to just this side of 0 at idle and go up a few when running at 1500 rpms. If they won't gradually drop back down and you know the battery if fully charged, you VR could be bad. Before you check all this, make sure you battery fluid level is right and that you haven't boiled any away.

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